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Why is it however, that whenever I hear about ppl committing suicide, they always talk about coming back to a more difficult lifetime to work out the same problems as before? How come some ppl have to go thru this but others dont? Also, some ppl get punished for PL misdeeds but others dont? I am very confused. I hope ppl dont have to be punished for committing suicide b/c thats the worst thing that anyone can do to someone who is suffering.
 
This sort of suffering isn't connected to suicide only.


There are souls that are stuck and can't move on, but why they can't move on has more than one reason.


Those reasons vary, are layered and can be very complex.


Just like depressions and feeling stuck in life is complex.


But even spirits who are stuck can move on to the light, sometimes by themselves and sometimes with the help of a psychic or medium.


Suicide doesn't cause suffering.


It isn't that simple, tt's most of all the other way around.


Suffering can have various reasons.


And you can feel stuck in any dimension, but there are also ways to get out.


How to get out and how to move on to the light that's what we learn during the course of our lives.


If you would look beyond the spiritual dimensions you are familiar with.


If you would know that there are many healing methods available on the other side.


After life isn't necessary dark after a dark ending.


I know, because I've been there, more than once...


Curious Girl.
 
I am sure you are right Curious Girl. However, let me relate a story.


I work as a volunteer counselor for suicidal teens. Its volunteer work I do in my spare time. There was a girl who came in very depressed. She was a good person so I dont know why she was punished so severely. She said in her last life she committed suicide and this life was the same as the last life but harder. Again she was feeling suicidal, and hence she had come in for help. Why would such a nice person have to go thru it all over again? What kind of God would allow that to happen b/c it was clear she was in pain.
 
I think we better deal with the fears and doubts we are suffering from now.


Instead of worrying too much about possible punishment after a possible suicide in a possible past life.


The things that block us on a daily basis, that's what keeps creating more negative karma.


And that's where we need to act.


Not in a past life, nor in a future life, but now...


The more we understand ourselves and the way life works.


The more we understand the lives and choices of others.


We need to help ourselves first before we can help, heal and understand others.


That's what I understand now, as a former suicidal teen.


Curious Girl.
 
If that's some sort of 'karmic punishment' for suicide, does that mean all of the middle-class people who bought homes in my neighborhood for the same reason are all people who are being punished for committing suicide in a past life?
Of course not, Phoenix. It seems to me that you are all having to learn how to deal with violence from a different perspective. In your case, it is not hard to understand why, considering your past life as Himmler. Even your declaring yourself as an "atheist" is also not so hard.

I'll have to bring that up at the next neighborhood association meeting.
I would ask you not to counter-debate, in particular regarding such a serious issue, by trying to make use of sarcasm.


Hi Tanguerra,

In fact I feel "the spirits'" position is not only judgmental but contradictory.
I think you are misunderstanding. Reincarnation and Karma are laws of nature, or "Natural Laws" (which yes, my belief is that they were created by God). You seem tightly bent towards trying to interpret it all, or counter argument, in terms of "punishment" or "God's punishment". In a way, it IS "punishment", but it is WE who create the circumstances, not God. Almost inevitably, the situation one finds oneself in at present is the consequence of one's past thoughts and actions. Action and reaction, cause and consequence. These are natural laws...

How come some ppl have to go thru this but others dont? Also, some ppl get punished for PL misdeeds but others dont? I am very confused.
Obie, we are ALL subject to the same natural laws, without exception. The point is that we must always deal with whatever hardships we are undergoing with patience and resignation. It is how we react NOW that will determine the consequences in our future. If more people could realize that every single morning we are given a new chance to do better and change our lives, quite certainly many more would not attempt to take what they consider an easier way out, but which in fact is not.


Patience, resignation and understanding. We cannot escape our destiny until we are positively and effectively willing to do so.


Most here believe in "Consciousness Creating". If in the spiritual realms we create our realities much faster in its lesser density, what do you imagine we will create if we arrive there with disturbed thoughts? The main purpose of reincarnation is to correct the imperfections of our consciousness...
 
Charles Stuart said:
Of course not, Phoenix. It seems to me that you are all having to learn how to deal with violence from a different perspective. [\QUOTE]
Except for one thing:


We all made the choice to do so. Even the people who lived here before the neighborhood went downhilll could have sold out and left, but they decided to stick it out.


We all believe in what we are doing. And so does the neighborhood organizer from the city, who has been helping us.

Charles Stuart said:
In your case, it is not hard to understand why, considering your past life as Himmler. [\QUOTE]
Except for another thing:


Even at the worst, I have not for one moment felt I was being punished for anything but my own decision to stay in the house and improve the neighborhood, instead of selling out and moving to the West Coast like my ex did.


Just like the rest of the people in my NA who chose to live in this area. All of us have other choices, other options. Unlike the people who live there because they have no other choices and no other options.


To me, they are the ones you should look at as being punished. The crackheads and the prostitutes are suffering, and drowning their sorrows in drugs and alcohol. The abused and neglected children playing unattended in the street. The gang members who are the latest generation of the old crime families, raised in extreme poverty.


What did they do to deserve that level of suffering? It certainly can't be anything worse than I did.


I cocooned for 3 years, but that's over now. I'm thriving on living in a bad neighborhood. I'm enjoying every minute of the amazing opportunity that has been given me to help be part of the solution by working with at-risk kids including gang members, neighborhood organizers, school officials, and the police.


To me, that is a reward, not a punishment. It certainly feels like an adventure.


But then, I have other options. I can change my mind at any time and sell the house for what I can get for it and forget that I ever lived there.


I'm enjoying the adventure too much for that.

Charles Stuart said:
Even your declaring yourself as an "atheist" is also not so hard.
Of course it's not hard to declare myself an atheist. It's what I am. No harder than it was for my mother to declare her own atheism. She was rather outspoken about it. Mom usually identified herself as a 'secular humanist', but she used the word 'atheist' as well.


I've been calling myself an atheist all of my life, except when I was briefly into Gardnerian Wicca (they lost me at 'skyclad') and then neo-paganism. Then, because I believed in reincarnation, but nothing else, I started just checking the "spiritual, but not religious" box.


Then I discovered that it is not required for me to believe in anything god-like or 'spiritual' to believe that reincarnation happens.


And when I got to that point, I stopped having a problem reconciling the whole concept of divinely-controlled reincarnation and karma and punishment, etc., with my own experiences and my own memories and knowledge. And with my own pragmatism and rational realism.


And that, I can accept and live with.

Charles Stuart said:
I would ask you not to counter-debate, in particular regarding such a serious issue, by trying to make use of sarcasm.
I wasn't being sarcastic. I meant every word. I am going to share that at my next neighborhood meeting. It will be a great stress-breaker, and I think they will find that as unique a way of looking at our situation, as we'll ever hear.


All of us are going through the same thing. If I'm being punished, then so are they. And, I'm getting off easy, because it's not having anywhere near the same effect on me that it is on them. It sure doesn't feel like punishment.


Just as I was, before I came out of my cocoon, all of them are terrified to live in this neighborhood. One guy has lived here for 15 years and still won't walk down his own street.


Some of them have got it really bad.


One of the people in my NA witnessed a drive-by shooting and broke down in tears when she related the story.


Another person in my NA was the victim of that drive-by shooting. A number of the young people in our neighborhood are shooting victims.


And, our neighborhood isn't even the 'hood or the post edition, which are much, much worse.


So, if you look at the big picture, what's going on in my life is an exciting adventure from my POV, and relative to what other people in my neighborhood and in the worse neighborhoods are enduring, I'm not being punished.


I'm only living with the choices I've made in the here and now.


So, please stop trying to spin my life so that it aligns with your belief system. It aligns with mine, and as it's my life...That's how it should be.


Phoenix
 
Let's call it a day. ;) I am closing this thread since I think it has run its course, and is now off topic.
 
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