At the moment of death

Discussion in 'Parapsychology' started by Kristopher, Jan 7, 2012.

  1. Kristopher

    Kristopher Senior Registered

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    Can our soul leave the body a second before it actually happens? Say, for example, we are in a massive car crash, if our souls knows that death is the outcome then would it leave early? I know people have mixed reviews on the work of Newton, but I remember he discussed that our soul may do this in order to avoid damaging our energy. If this is true, its weird how people who want to commit suicide can't just 'leave their body'. With reports of fit and healthy people just 'dropping dead' on the spot with no known cause of death I wonder if this really is the case sometimes.
     
  2. Green26

    Green26 Senior Registered

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    Yes, I believe it can and does. Anita M's NDE took place in a coma, so she left her body when it was close to death, it never actually died. There have also been accounts of spontaneous OBEs during highly stressful, possibly life threatening situations, and I think it happens to protect the energy. That can even happen when we are not close to death, people who suffer from ongoing trauma will eventually experience soul loss, which is where part of their energy disassociates from the body and leaves because it is too traumatic to continue to experience the trauma. This is called soul loss in shamanic terms.


    I am not a fan of Newton's overall message but I do think he is right on this one.



    If you could see that you were about to suffer horrendous 3rd degree burns to your entire body would you want to stick around to experience it or would you leave a few seconds early?
     
  3. Kristopher

    Kristopher Senior Registered

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    That's really interesting, Green. Are any of they links about this? I haven't heard of this before. I will watch these links tonight when I am settled, I look forward to it.
     
  4. Green26

    Green26 Senior Registered

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    they are both about soul loss. The solution is called soul retrieval. This is where a shaman goes into an altered state of consciousness to access other realms to find people's soul fragments and return them.

     
  5. ArnoldVinette

    ArnoldVinette Arnold Vinette

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    Scientifically speaking no


    Based on the documentaries that I have seen on NDE's Near Death Experience, the spirit cannot leave the body until the brain stops functioning.


    From what I gather the brain and spirit are fused together as a working unit at birth. This is done at the quantum level.


    The spirit for all intensive purposes for this discussion is from the spirit dimension of the universe = life force and knowledge of the universe that we live in.


    The human body experiences consciousness because of the spirit that is fused with the brain at the quantum level.


    Once the brain dies the spirit is free to leave the body.


    While in the body and fused with the brain the spirit is dependent on the body's brain for its experiences.


    Meaning if a person is blind the spirit cannot see. And so forth.


    In all of the NDE documentaries that I have watched there has never been a mention of a spirit leaving the body prematurely.


    So my answer to you is no. The spirit cannot leave the body until the brain has died based on the evidence of NDE's to date.


    From a practical perspective I can vouch for this.


    At the age of 9 years I was involved in a fatal car accident that took the life of the driver. My own life was spared by 1/4".


    I remember clearly seeing the headlights of the car that would hit us head on.


    My spirit didn't jump. Nor did I have an NDE experience.


    Arnold Vinette
     
  6. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Registered

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    Although, as Arnold suggests, the spirit does not leave the body until the brain dies, I would suggest from my understanding of quantum biology, that consciousness can exist outside the body and does often, in fact, somehow disconnect from the brain's sensory neurons. While the spirit very well could become fused with the physical body at the quantum level, consciousness is not a physical quality but is only entangled with the body in such a way that it knows what is happening with the body even at a distance.


    In answer to the question posed by Kris, I am fairly confident with the theory that out of body experiences are quite real, while there are certainly other cases that I've personally witnessed in which a person's consciousness remains in the body while suffering all the pain and misery of death.
     
  7. Lady2

    Lady2 Senior Registered

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    A good question Kristopher, that raises more questions in itself.


    I think the soul could leave the body an instant before death...But considering that the soul isn't just limited to being inside the physical body, (but also surrounding it), deciding when the soul has actually 'left' would be hard to tell.


    I don't think anyone can fully understand it all until they are in that kind of a situation.
     
  8. Totoro

    Totoro Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    :thumbsup: I've been very interested in this myself since it's happened to me a handful of times. It's listed in the DSM-IV but it gives no explanation on how you can see your own body sitting there. I guess they figure it's a trick of the imagination!


    The last time it happened to me wasn't stressful at all. In fact I was sitting comfortably on the couch with my cat when she looked up at the ceiling. Suddenly I found myself far to the right of my body and looking back on myself.


    My grandfather had recently passed away right before that and I've always wondered if he didn't visit me. My cat may have sensed his presence and perhaps the energy pulled on me like a magnet?


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization

    intents and purposes... :laugh::laugh::laugh: lol
     
  9. Green26

    Green26 Senior Registered

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    Of course NOT ALL people who experience life threatening situations experience this or report this, in fact even in those who do actually medically die only 10% report an NDE.

    NDE's to date? I think you may be unaware of a few NDE reports coming out in the last 5 years or so.

     
  10. Green26

    Green26 Senior Registered

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    I think whether the soul escapes or not may have something to do with the emotional response to the threat, someone who is about to have acid poured on them may have a strong enough flight or flight response to trigger a spontaneous OBE, where that probably won't happen in someone dying of cancer. How someone dies is also a consideration, people can die instantly in an accident or it can be a slow decline due to illness.
     
  11. Val

    Val Member

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    My mother died of lung cancer about three weeks ago. She was diagnosed (Already in stage 4) 7 months ago, and it was a shock because she had never smoked, and had been in pretty good health up until a couple months before that. But she was 82 years old. I moved her into my home and took care of her. It was hard watchin her getting worse over the months.


    The day before she died she couldn't talk very well, but she said to me, "I have something to tell you." After catching her breath again she continued with, " I don't have long." The next morning about 10 am she tried to sit up while looking off to her right with a suprised expression on her face. I said, "Mom, what are you seeing!" She was trying to talk, but she couldn't make more then a noise at the time, then she layed back and her eyes rolled back into her head. After that she went through a couple hours of irragular breathing (meaning that she would stop breathing then start again a few seconds to a minute or two later.) I was of course upset, but eventually I said, " Mom if you have to go it's ok." right after that she took her last breath.


    The thing is my daughters were in the room with me and we sensed mom was in the room with us, but it didn't seem like she was in her body... at least not all the way. And we kept seeing a faded orb on the right side of her bed up until shortly after she took her last breath. I think she left her body, but stayed close by while her body finished the dying process.
     
  12. ChrisR

    ChrisR Administrator Emeritus Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I'm sorry to hear that about your Mother, Val. I hope you can find some comfort in what you have just shared with us. It's not the end for your Mother, rather the beginning of a new adventure for her. Thanks for sharing hug2.gif
     
  13. Mama2HRB

    Mama2HRB Senior member

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    In the books that I have read it states that the soul leaves the body moments before death happens, that the person does not feel the pain of the impact or incident. It is as if the person is watching it happen while they are outside of their body.


    My condolences on the loss of your mother, Val. Losing a parent is a rough thing. Thank you for sharing about the orb. I did not see an orb when my Dad was dying, he fought for every last breath.
     
  14. usetawuz

    usetawuz Senior Registered

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    Whether the soul has departed the body prior to the time of death or not I cannot say, though I do believe we are spared the apparent sensation of being physically destroyed. I have mentioned before in other threads that it is my belief we are spared the agony and evident "death throes" people appear to experience at the moment of death. Even when death is simply the ceasing of breathing, it can appear one is in great distress while trying to get their next breath, and that has not been my experience.


    Each of my views of previous live's deaths have felt at the most a sense of pressure at the place of bodily impact, or in the chest, with difficulty breathing. The pressure upon dying of poison was surprisingly in the throat despite my body's writhing focused on my stomach. In each death, the shock was first in the lack of physical pain and agony, then followed by an enormous sense of surprise, then relief, achievement and happiness.


    Very few times has there been more than a minimal twinge of loss or a desire to assist those surviving, although I have experienced a sense of anger for taking "that way out" and not sticking around longer. My belief in the eternal soul and those we love being with us forever, is deeply seated and each time I review a previous death scene it simply strengthens my feeling of connectedness to those with whom I live both here and there.


    Once again, as a consummate actor, my soul will end its current role upon the "death" of my character...when he has played his last scene, those surviving will play their roles and carry the plot line and the continuous scenes through to the conclusion of the play we wrote together...only to come up with another play with which to act together on the stage of incarnate life.


    To me this is the greatest game...
     
  15. Mama2HRB

    Mama2HRB Senior member

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    My father sat up with each last breath and fought for more life. It was beyond heartbreaking. It was even after his body had given out and the jaundice set in.


    I do believe in most instances we leave before we die.


    Dad was back in 5.5 hours laughing and telling jokes so once he got past the leaving he was very happy to be as he was. I am very thankful for that.
     
  16. EllieMarianna

    EllieMarianna New Member

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    When I died in a car accident during my last life, I remember looking down on myself just before my body died. I had internal bleeding and had said my goodbye's and left, but my body was still shutting down, my brain was still alive but my heart was no longer beating.
     
  17. hydrolad

    hydrolad Senior Moderator Super Moderator

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    After I first started and got through training, I often wondered what the Soul was doing as my Captain and I worked on the patient, was he/she hovering up in a corner or where were they?


    After the ER Doctor had cancelled the resuscitation efforts (called the code) I would try to spend time with the deceased, calls and privacy permitted.


    While in the room or cubicle with the deceased, I would whisper quietly to him/her that he/she was dead from this body and to seek out a light that put out good feelings and go to it (corny I know and they were my words to begin with!!!).


    I had a fear of my former patient being stuck between planes (so to speak, back then) and I felt (naively) that my call was not complete until the patient entered the light (back then I was big on concepts).


    I was a naïve young man and I had a good heart when it came to helping others, and I tried to help the patient as much as I could, including helping their Soul as well.


    Needless to say, some of my cohorts understood, some didn’t, some ridiculed me, but most were indifferent to the idea of rescuing a Soul in limbo.


    I wonder to this day whether I actually helped someone into the light (another concept again!)
     
  18. Yellow Roses

    Yellow Roses New Member

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    My grandmother came to me


    I was always exceptionally close to my Dad's mother. She had raised me until I was five, and our bond was close. I once heard her tell a relative when she did not know I could hear her, "Debbie and I aren't anything alike, but we love each other more than any two people in this family."


    In her late 80's, it became necessary for my uncle to take her to Oregon and put her in a rest home near him. She was there for about a year before she died. While there she became very ill, she was in a coma from kidney failure and not expected to survive.



    One morning, before awakening, I had a dream. In the dream I was with her in her home, sitting close together on that brown couch that she loved and everyone else hated. We were holding each other tightly. "I don't want to leave you Debbie, you might need me."



    I did my best to reassure her I would be o.k. if she left, and that I loved her so much.



    It was then I turned my head, and saw her mother standing in the dining room under the chandelier. She looked just as I'd seen her in pictures. Her mother died when I was a baby.



    "Look Grandma, there is your Mama, come to take you. It will be o.k. Grandma Nation is here for you."



    She hugged me one last time, and was gone. I woke up.



    About 20 minutes later, my sister called me to tell me that our MawMaw had passed a few minutes before.



     
  19. hydrolad

    hydrolad Senior Moderator Super Moderator

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    Love reigns supreme!!!


    Years ago, our unit got frequent calls to a local Long Term Skilled Nursing Facility and I got to know some of the staff real well and somehow knowing of my interest in the Other Side, Past Lives and other similar interests, one of the Nurses during a no transport call, told me about a situation involving her and one of their chronic long term patients, who had recently passed away.


    This women had been a part of a Husband-Wife case where they occupied this little room, but ventured out for meals and social activities together, strolling arm in arm, as a couple, wherever you saw her, there he was, even venturing down to the PT Department to sit while his Wife went through her therapy (she had fallen and broke her hip a while back.)


    Sadly, one day her Husband passed away after suffering a massive Stroke and the life went out of that lady, and she slowly became sicker and sicker, going through bouts of pneumonia (common in hip injury patients) to where she would have to be transported to the hospital for treatment.


    And every time she got sick, some of the more "gifted" staff members would catch a fleeting glimpse of what appeared to be her late Husband, standing at the foot of her bed, as if waiting for his Wife to join him, hand in hand, once again.


    One rainy morning, as if the World was weeping at her departure, she breathed her last breath of air and was found by this very same Nurse with a smile on her face, and for her faithful Husband, who had stood vigil over her bed, he never appeared again to any of the staff.


    And being a "DO NOT Resuscitate" no attempt was made to revive her, as she was gone from this life.


    For he had come for her, standing guard over her from the Other Side, patiently waiting, until it was her time to leave and back then, they were once again, together again, hand in hand :angel: < > :angel: as much in love in Death as they were in Life!


    Sorry for the long post, I wanted to relate the entire true story.
     
  20. usetawuz

    usetawuz Senior Registered

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    I believe there can be no doubt your efforts were and are appreciated, and what a credit to you for doing what you felt was right even in the face of ridicule...it is one thing to save a body and another entirely to help a soul find its direction.
     
  21. Totoro

    Totoro Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    What a wonderful story! Thanks for sharing!
     
  22. dking777

    dking777 Senior Registered

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    I had two 'near-death' experiences as an adult. One was in a massive car crash (1978) and the other was due to a relapse of of a childhood lung and cardiac condition (1988.) For me, my memories of the car crash is - I went through the pain of impact and the physical injuries. I do believe I was in shock after the impact and when my 'spirit' did finally leave - I feel it was due to the body shutting down that propelled my spirit outwards.


    The second NDE was in front of 8 witnesses. After my stay in the hospital - I was reunited with them and we compared testimony of what happened. I was outside of my body long before it shut down. My point of view and testimony was from outside the body during a 2-3 minute period where the physical body was still active, moving and talking. This confused the witnesses because according to them (during that 2-3 minute period)- I wasn't dead (unconscious) yet. To me, it was instinct because it was brought on by a medical condition I was used to it from childhood. Intuition came into play and I was very 'in tune' with my soul and crying for help.


    The idea of a 'body' alive and talking without a spirit inside of it - freaked my friends out. I tried to explain to them what I had knowledge of during that time. I called it a 'residual' effect. My physical mind had gone back to one of my childhood experiences and tapped into a hidden file when the pain hit me. I knew enough to know - the body was about to shut down and I (my spirit) didn't need to be inside the body though the whole process. My 'body' was babbling like child after my spirit left in a very incoherent fashion. I called the old memory a 'high energy' point so there was enough energy to play the physical memory out.


    Why I was able to 'depart' early during one incident and not the other is still a mystery to me.


    Sincerely,


    DKing
     
  23. Susie

    Susie Dreamer-former moderator

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    When I worked in nursing several years ago, I was privileged to work with the dying. Twice I was chosen by dying patients to be there during their deaths. One patient I held in my arms as she passed.


    It was my experience that their spirits left their bodies the instant before they took their last breaths. I could feel it, sense their spirits in the room prior to dying.
     
  24. hydrolad

    hydrolad Senior Moderator Super Moderator

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    The Dying of the Light


    I spent some 36 years in the Medical field in several different professions, my last one, ending in my retirement due to a disability from a large Fire & EMS combined Department in Central Florida where I spent over 30 years with the FD


    When I worked on a Unit years ago, there was a type of call that sometimes left me drained, much like a limp, wet dish rag.


    And that was a call, known as a Code 19 (other locales use Code Blue, Doctor Blue and so on) to denote a patient requiring resuscitative efforts which involved using CPR at some point.


    And if the patient did not respond favorably to any resuscitative efforts Enroute to the Hospital or at the ER, I would sometimes feel "Out of Sorts".


    I know this sounds strange, and I'm opening myself to ridicule, much like when I was at the Station and learned to bite my tongue, enough that it bled, when someone tried to bait me into responding, but even though I could not see the Soul anymore (I could as a child), I felt as though someone was making it's presence known to me as if wanting to communicate with me.


    Sometimes, on a call, I would hear my voice being called, and it was not any alive person in the area, or I would feel a presence next to me, or a feeling of someone looking over my shoulder at what I was doing, or the feeling of a presence of someone in the room, I know these feelings sound weird and all, but these things are what I felt whenever I was around deceased persons.


    The worst feelings I picked up was from a young teen age boy, who was just old enough to drive, who was killed by a drunk driver (who lived), I squeezed into the vehicle of the (soon to be deceased) teen and he was unconscious and in agonal breathing, and there was no room to work on him except basic care, and while others outside, worked on cutting open his vehicle, the teenager and I sat together, on what was left of the front seat, in the flickering darkness, occasionally illuminated by a spotlight or other emergency light.


    Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to show you how these feelings came about, I didn't get the feelings on every call, just some, it depended on the severity of the call, the age of the person, the outcome of the call, and so on, it sounds strange, but it was a lot like a "Dying of the Light rage scenario", instead of their death being a peaceful and calm transition into Spirit, it was almost like they were angry at being not being able to grow old and angry at the person(s) who caused their death.


    As I've gotten older, and not on a unit any more, the feeling have gone away and I'm NOT relating all of this just to seem important, but illustrate at how I felt sometimes on a run (a call).


    Thank You very Much for your time and by chance, you are faced with a newly deceased person, PLEASE be careful what you say around the body, people who have "died", have reported an Out of Body Experience (OOBE) and were resuscitated and reported what was said and done in the room verbatim.
     
  25. BriarRose

    BriarRose Senior Registered

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    Hydrolad, as far as I am concerned, you and Susie did the work of Angels. I'm familiar with agonal breathing from my mother's passing. It was very difficult to be present. I thought, "She brought me into this world, the least I can do is see her out!" To perform that act for a stranger is an act of love for the human condition. I wish everyone who dies in a crisis had someone with sensitivity and compassion to "see them out".
     
  26. argonne1918

    argonne1918 Senior Registered

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    Hydrolad, you are another person in this forum with psychic ability. What you have described is not strange at all for those who know.
     
  27. hydrolad

    hydrolad Senior Moderator Super Moderator

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    If I try to concentrate on any psychic abilities, nothing happens, the harder I try, the worst the inaction gets, but let my mind wander (what little mind I have left!!!) and SOMETIMES something will happen.


    For instance I can, time after time, know when the phone is going to ring or I'm going to see someone that I have not seen in a while, that sort of thing which I take for granite, possibly a primitive throwback to an ancient time, needed perhaps to enhance survival of the species, maybe?


    So if something happens, I'm happy, and if it does not, oh well. ;)
     
  28. argonne1918

    argonne1918 Senior Registered

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    Were your psychic abilities stronger when you were a child?
     
  29. hydrolad

    hydrolad Senior Moderator Super Moderator

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    For "argonne1918"


    Yes they were, and by the time I reached my very early pre-teens (9 or 10) they had settled down, but puberty raised some other gifts, because I had several instances of "possible" Poltergeist activity, the strongest incident was a door knob turning while playing cards with my younger Brother.


    I could see Souls or Spirit forms if they were adept enough to collect enough energy for them to be seen by souls occupying a body, but again, by the time I reached puberty, I could only see them in my side vision by then, (that is, out of the corner of my eye).


    I don't know if it's me or this happens to everyone, but as I mentioned earlier, the harder I try, the less chance I have of having a successful psychic incident take place, but let my mind wander or become unfocused and it usually takes place.


    Please feel free to ask some more questions and to write or post again. :)
     
  30. argonne1918

    argonne1918 Senior Registered

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    I have been contacted telepathically by several people that I knew after they died. Has that ever happened to you?
     

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