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Covid19 Thread 2 (Prayers, compassion, and reflection)

Tinkerman

Tinkerman

Executive Director
Staff member
Super Moderator
As the Covid19 virus changes the world in such epic and catastrophic ways the staff of the forum wishes to have a place where reflection and prayerful discourse can take place. It must remain constructive and non-divisive. No politics, none.

Covid19 Thread 1 is closed but viewable. It went on for 20 pages. Thank you to SeaAndSky for the original posting.

On a personal note, I live on a very remote ranch in the middle of the American prairie. Sheltering in place is a regular part of my existence; there are no other people for miles in every direction. So I sit back and watch the world from a distance. But it can be a scary thing out here too; in the nearest town (pop.200) there were two cases of the virus. When you put a name, and a face to the disease, especially in our closed/remote community it becomes very real. I cannot imagine the heartache and scale of the virus in places like New York. The emotional and physical toll is unimaginable.

What do we do? What do you do? Personally, as a Buddhist/Seeker, I delve deep into meditation as a daily practice. Reflection into the numinous and spiritual realm, for me, is powerful. The other night the Dalai Lama spoke live to the world; he talked about how we are all one people, one common life, with a common home--earth. He said the only way these catastrophes can be solved is by compassion. He emphasized that every major religion has at its core belief: love and compassion. And, if the world would practice such... it would heal the earth and all society.

The staff of the forum would like to thank all of those who help keep the wheels of society turning... doctors, nurses, grocery suppliers and store clerks, police, fire, and civic workers, etc... THANK YOU.

And thank you to the members here for their compassionate and friendly discourse on this subject.

Tinkerman
 
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Hi Tinkerman,

I "liked" your post, and actually do LIKE your post. At a different time I might take tiny issue with one "non-political" statement. But, in the interest of not throwing monkey wrenches in the gears for awhile, I will put a sock in it. I'm sure it will come up again sometime anyhow.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--I previously mentioned putting up additional content, but I don't think the fairly "light weight" subject I was going to interject has any place following immediately after your very deep and heartfelt post. I'll let some others post for a while so that the contrast between depth and topical shallowness won't be quite so grating. :cool:
 
Covid19 - Aircraft carrier Cavour abandons the Taranto internal bay (Mare Piccolo, South Italy) to enter the Ionian Sea:

 
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fortunately where i live business's are opening up and i got to share a dine-in experience with close friends. a friend thanked me with relief that we could do something as simple as go out and congregate. even the unsavory moments become something to appreciate. my prayers go out to those who may be confined or hurting because of over the top government mandates.
 
tanker, you got it. a speedy recovery for you. :) i believe my friend is in better mental health for fleeing nyc. about your chest, is it respiratory? swami has recommended HOCL hypochlorous acid and bee propolis if so(maybe oral or spay form). now is crucial to share the prayer of wellness and goodness for all.
 
"To share the wellness and goodness for all," yes, I think this should be our primary directive. It is easy to blame everything for our trouble but in its basic form we, people, are the accelerant in this pandemic. As Pope Francis said a few weeks ago, "...this is not the first pandemic the world has faced." Our over-consumptive and indulgent society has lost track of the reality of life, and most overtly the poor. He pointed out the hypocrisy of political leaders for talking about caring about Covid19 and yet continuing to build weapons of war.

The Dalai Lama, last weekend gave two nights of teaching on the pandemic. He too recognized society as the root of the disease. He said that we've forgotten that we are all equal beings, sentient beings... all life is valuable, including nature and the living world we occupy. He also condemned the proliferation of war. In this epic battle of nature vs. humankind, we should all know who will win; this is a good time to listen to the wisdom of nature. Nature is correcting the planet.

In my own journey, through past lives, in particular, my life as my great grandfather, I lost my wife and two boys to the Diptheria epidemic of 1906. The resulting mental break down was a terrible trial and one that I feel even today as I stand at their graves. Yes, we've lost some freedom, and certainly, the way of life we once knew is changing, but life does go on, standing over those graves reminds me of that. So for me, right now, I want to choose a path of healing for the soul, the psyche, and nature. Blaming seems to fester the problems, aggravate the populus, and feed the hysteria of conspiracy theories. We each, in my opinion, need to live the life of our faith... whether Buddhist, Seik, Christian, Moslem, Pagan... whatever! Live the faith of spirituality that they provide. In most every belief system love is the root factor, and compassion is the tool to work it. This is what we need right now. The Dalai Lama was emphatic that all peoples and all faiths must respect each other because we are all one humanity... we are the same and we all must live on this earth, it is our common home.

These are just a few thoughts from the prairie on a rainy morning. Blessing to each of you. Practice your faith... whatever it may be.

~Tman
 
Lockdown ends - tourism returns:

[...I'll take you to where the sun rises...I'll take you to where the Moon sleeps...]

 
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All:

This post is added as relevant to the category "reflection" in the title of this thread. Proper reflection includes the question: What have we learned from the latest pandemic? I recall stating in the prior thread that Covid was still just a "dry run"--something to prepare us for the really deadly pandemics that are possible in the future. The following article will serve to reiterate that point. It also provides a lot of useful information at what should be, for the human race, a "teachable moment." Do not read it if you do not wish to have your nascent sense of security rocked:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8370969/The-apocalyptic-killer-virus-coming-home-roost.html

The foregoing is not provided just to depress people who were beginning to feel better about things. But if we are going to reflect, we need to reflect on what we are doing that makes pandemics possible and what we should, possibly, be doing differently. This strikes home to me because I am most definitely not a vegan. Likewise, industrial farming techniques are what makes the modern meat supply cheap and plentiful, but many of these techniques are (I hate to admit) rather cruel. Given the fact that they may also lead to large scale human deaths, it makes me think there might be a better alternative . . . .

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi, folks:

I had already read a similar article in I don't even remember what media nor what language. I'm not panic-stricken, but calm and sure the science will provide a solution to the problem, now that this problem has at last been well outlined.

It's lamentable that our species has to be well scared prior to begin making the necessary steps towards a right solution.
But this fear will, I hope, at least assure that all the necessary means (financial, human, ...) will be provided for such a solution.

Maybe I'm just too confdent with the science and logic in general.
 
Hi Cyrus,

I'm not terrified either, but I still don't think people fully recognize the epic possibilities of the problem. It seems that people would rather worry about a large celestial impact than an epidemic.

The difference is that the conditions that produce a celestial impact event have been present throughout history, and we know from history that an impact with global consequences is a very, very rare phenomenon. So, despite current efforts to watch the sky a bit more carefully and catalog any possible sources for such an impact, we can remain fairly sure that any impact will be (at worst) a local/regional disaster and not a world-wide catastrophe. (I'm actually more worried myself about the impact of a direct hit by a strong solar flare).

However, the conditions that could produce a truly deadly pathogen and carry it around the world in a short period of time allowing it to kill untold millions or billions of people (before any cure or vaccine could be found) are very, very recent. Thus, our sense of security on this possibility is likely misplaced. The conditions that could produce such an event are recent enough that we haven't really been in a position to truly evaluate and plan for the danger it could pose. For example, the death rate for the recent pandemic in the U.S. has apparently been less than 1% and to date there have nonetheless been more than 100,000 deaths. That is pretty horrific, but things could be much, much worse.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--I agree with your conclusion that science and logic could provide a pathway to deal with and hopefully to largely eliminate this threat. However, I'm not convinced at all that humans currently have the "willpower" to do so, or that they will have the willpower until something far worse than what we have already experienced takes place. At that point it may be too late.

PPS--Despite my first "P.S." I'm not going to end on a negative note. The pandemic we have just experienced should be a "call to arms" on some of the issues involved. If we get busy while staying compassionate and sensible, we can do great things, so I'm definitely not giving up hope. ;)
 
Cyrus said:
Lockdown ends - tourism returns:

[...I'll take you to where the sun rises...I'll take you to where the Moon sleeps...]

Click to expand...

Shame I don't speak Italian in this lifetime - nice music.

Watched a film I've been meaning to see when opportunity arose for some time - "The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Society". Good film/enjoyed it. Like the scenery of Guernsey and promised myself I'd go and take a look some time for a holiday - and then remembered my experience in a holiday in Crete one time.

I think I'd probably "struggle" with Guernsey - because of what happened to the people there in World War 2. That being now that the penny has dropped as to why I did not like Crete from the second I set foot on it for a holiday - ie I have the feeling I was one of the lepers isolated from society there - as they did I gather (first in caves on Crete, then the Spinalonga leper colony off the coast) and I couldnt handle that. Not after the 10 weeks (and who knows how much longer?) of Lockdown in Britain (the worse Welsh version at that).
 
Re the article re even worse virus - I've got a couple of his recent books about diet and won't dare buy this book. Don't feel I dare read the newspaper article even - as I've known this is an all too real possibility for some time and it's all I can do to handle Covid.

I am what I call "vegetarian - veering towards vegan" and that is all part of my reasoning as to why - ie because of the way animals are treated and the risks of it for us.
 
SeaAndSky said:
Hi Cyrus,

I'm not terrified either, but I still don't think people fully recognize the epic possibilities of the problem. It seems that people would rather worry about a large celestial impact than an epidemic.

The difference is that the conditions that produce a celestial impact event have been present throughout history, and we know from history that an impact with global consequences is a very, very rare phenomenon. So, despite current efforts to watch the sky a bit more carefully and catalog any possible sources for such an impact, we can remain fairly sure that any impact will be (at worst) a local/regional disaster and not a world-wide catastrophe. (I'm actually more worried myself about the impact of a direct hit by a strong solar flare).

However, the conditions that could produce a truly deadly pathogen and carry it around the world in a short period of time allowing it to kill untold millions or billions of people (before any cure or vaccine could be found) are very, very recent. Thus, our sense of security on this possibility is likely misplaced. The conditions that could produce such an event are recent enough that we haven't really been in a position to truly evaluate and plan for the danger it could pose. For example, the death rate for the recent pandemic in the U.S. has apparently been less than 1% and to date there have nonetheless been more than 100,000 deaths. That is pretty horrific, but things could be much, much worse.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--I agree with your conclusion that science and logic could provide a pathway to deal with and hopefully to largely eliminate this threat. However, I'm not convinced at all that humans currently have the "willpower" to do so, or that they will have the willpower until something far worse than what we have already experienced takes place. At that point it may be too late.

PPS--Despite my first "P.S." I'm not going to end on a negative note. The pandemic we have just experienced should be a "call to arms" on some of the issues involved. If we get busy while staying compassionate and sensible, we can do great things, so I'm definitely not giving up hope. ;)
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Yes, S&S, I see your point.

It's hard to think otherwise, seeing all that's happening before our eyes.

The covid19-dissidents, or whatever else do they call themselves, have strong throats and seldom doubt to recur to violence.

But take into account, that scientific researches don't need much public light, they just need concentration, an adequate financing and much calm.

All this can be provided by adequate politicians, well informed about the theme by good advisers.

The influential politicians are often too old to be afraid of the threat enough to make any suffiecient efforts, but they all have children and grand children,
that could live still long after their deaths, and thus to care about providing all within their means to reach the right solution.

So, I hope, the science still has a chance.

More so, if we recall that there are secret and semi-secret laboratories in several countries where all kinds of biological weapons are investigated.

There can even be already some hand-made viruses designed and fabricated in those laboratories, a lot more dangerous than those that your linked article describes.

So, there must be a good ground prepared by the previous investigations, to start from.

Not for mankind's sake, of course - there can be no doubt about the cynicism and egoism of those people, but just for their own survival, and the survival of their descentants.

For, I don't think they could prefer to exterminate the 99.99% of the humankind to remain the only survivors on an empty planet.

I hope not.

Yours, very truly,

Cyrus.
 
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Cyrus said:
Hi, folks:

I had already read a similar article in I don't even remember what media nor what language. I'm not panic-stricken, but calm and sure the science will provide a solution to the problem, now that this problem has at last been well outlined.

It's lamentable that our species has to be well scared prior to begin making the necessary steps towards a right solution.
But this fear will, I hope, at least assure that all the necessary means (financial, human, ...) will be provided for such a solution.

Maybe I'm just too confdent with the science and logic in general.
Click to expand...

This is a consequence of human psychology being built on a foundation of fear rather than sound mind and it can be blamed partly on the usual things like the media, entertainment, and education industries that don't equip people to handle events like this. There is moments for it but not to the extent that it is and it is a dreadful condition for anyone to be living in.
 
I just read a report which covered 750,000 coronavirus cases.. The researches found that those with O blood were less likely to get the virus I have O negative blood and as I have said before I have only had the flue once in my life as a young child.. So it seems my blood type may have protected me.. When I was young the blood banks in Australia were always chasing me to donate my blood and as I have said before I must have donated gallons of blood over the years
New Zealand has declared they are free of coronavirus...Australia has almost beaten it with only two new cases yesterday and no new deaths for at least a couple of weeks
Crowds are returning to our sporting events this weekend.. limited numbers with distancing but still good news for all of us football fans
 
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for music events coming back soon here. I've seen several advertised before long here in Wales and so fingers crossed the organisers know something we don't yet about they will be allowed to go ahead. The plus side to recent demonstrations in various parts of the world will be, I anticipate, that it will be very instructive to see that there is NOT a surge in cases a couple of weeks down the line (despite a lot of the more vulnerable gene-wise being on them - ie BAME).

You've just given me pause for thought too re blood groups. I know that, as blood group O, that means I'm noticeably less vulnerable to severe effects of Covid (if we assume it exists) - but it hadn't occurred to me that this could be what seems to have given me protection from flu then I'm guessing. As someone in my 60's - I've probably had flu an unusually low number of times comparatively speaking - ie I've only had it once in my life.

Aren't we supposed to be the "oldest" blood group? - ie we track back all the way to the Neanderthals or something? So, to me, that would indicate we've had the longest time span of all to mix and match and pick up whatever illnesses were around and thus the "weakest" of our blood group have already died in previous centuries and not passed their genes on?

That would make logical sense to me - even if I do panic whenever I spot what different blood groups are "supposed" to be eating according to some writers - and my chosen way of eating is not the one they say for us "
 
swami vidyadhishananda has said the thing to do during these times is to practice fortitude as a spiritual practice on the family level. the momentum and the collective karma is such that real reform won't be seen until 2034. between now and then we can expect at least one more major movement in consciousness. the prediction is 2025-2026... by 2029 things will calm as the younger generation will have more compassion than what the current generation is currently able to demonstrate. while we endure the transitions, time and time again we will be faced with the decision to respond to life with love or hate. the best medicine is nature, to disconnect from the fear-peddled news. i do believe these times are allowing people to embrace their individual responsibility more, take the desired paths for how they choose to live their life. freedom will be found in the connections with those closest to them. the potential is there at least. lastly, i'd like to add that there were other masters and monks who have in the past accurately described the times we are faced with today. some of the things to note that stood out to me, communication with extraterrestrials will be common place. there will be a movement from systems to consciousness. population will be decreased. despite the chaos, find peace and glide these waters. swami has also said it isn't enough to be earnest, these times require dutiful action. so let your expression be your service for those in your immediate life. you will find the joy in these moments. i sincerely believe there is a heavenly response, cosmic rays of energy that effects us all, it is transcendent and very positive in nature. :)
 
tanker said:
If only England had been as sensible as New Zealand and continued with the lockdown instead of giving in to popular opinion. It was cowardly imo, and has resulted in one of the highest death tolls in the world. I'm expecting there to be a second wave as a result of this, but hope I'm wrong. Whatever they do, I'm staying put in any case!
Click to expand...

A month later and nothing was learned as people put business and social needs before everything else even to the point of hosting parties to see if anyone gets infected. All in all I am really annoyed and angry how society has handled this in the west especially when extroverts crowd together like sardines and anchovies resulting in huge clusters of cases. How many have to needlessly die before people begin to reason that it is better to wait this out before rushing to normal again. As for NZ they only got lucky the first time around but once the age old normalcy bias kicks in they will have a problem on their hands just like Australia.

This fall is going to be horrendous between the outbreak and the ongoing social hell in the states.
 
There and back is right Here in Australia the sate of Victoria is recording its biggest numbers ever Be vey wary of schools returning as as being talked about in the US What we are finding that yes children are lest effected by the virus but they a contracting the virus at school and bringing it home to the adults as a result Victoria is closing it's schools again so be very careful about opening up the schools
 
tanker said:
Exactly right. How many? But people's social activities seem to rule everything now, here in England. There's a huge social event near where I live today, and I've watched a three-hour steady stream of cars heading there this morning. How many thousands are going to be crowded in together? All for something completely unnecessary. How many innocent people are going to die as a result of this one event? And multiply that over the whole country. Will the resulting deaths teach people a lesson? Somehow I doubt it. It's a sad reflection on our values these days.

My friends laugh at me for staying in during all this, but that's one more thing I have to put up with in order to stay safe. Let them get on with it. But I fear they might be suffering in the coming winter.
Click to expand...

Just like with those beach parties in Florida a couple of weeks back and yesterday they had 15,299 test positive, that is only one day and to think that the same is happening in multiple states but worse still this is the same strain that devastated Italy.
 
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