Jasmine And Her 'Camel'

Discussion in 'Children's Past Lives -Age 7 & under' started by Angelcat, Oct 30, 2007.

  1. ChrisR

    ChrisR Administrator Emeritus Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I too thought of Brylcreem when I read your post, and a bit of Googling only revealed a tobacco tin with a Brylcreem ad picture on the lid, and that seemed unlikely, and as maulacat said, it wasn't produced until 1928. But Brilliantine, now that is interesting and sounds like it could be what Jasmine is referring to, Brilliantine .... 'brilly tin', they sound very much alike. Thanks for that Maxine :)
     
  2. Maxine

    Maxine New Member

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    Funnily enough, Chris and Maulacat, I had thought of the Brylcream first off. But ,like Maulacat, saw that it was invented until 1928.


    If she had lost a 'Billy Tin' on the bus I am surprised she didn't call it a 'Billy Can', most people then would have called it that. I can well imagine she might have had one, issue to airmen or not. If you wanted to make tea in your room those days the chances of access to an electric kettle were slim. :laugh:If those existed at all I bet they were rare and expensive.


    I inclined to wonder if they called the Brilliantine stuff 'Brilly' then for slang, in the UK? I also wondered if the 'Brylcream' was an attempt by that manufacturer to muscle in on an existing name for the stuff.


    I've just looked it up in a German dictionary. It was called 'brilliantine' in German too, and, so far as I can make out, was pronounced 'tin' not 'teen', at least in German.
     
  3. Angelcat

    Angelcat Senior Registered

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    Many thanks to you all for your research and imput with this one - it's very much appreciated!


    I think Brilliantine may well be the answer. It certainly would explain why when Susan asked Jasmine what was in the tin, she said "brilly tin", which didn't seem to make sense. As I haven't yet heard her say this myself it will be interesting on Tuesday to hear how she says it. "Brilly tin" may well be her four and a half year old's attempt at Brilliantine, which is a hard word for a child to say.


    Maxine, I wouldn't be surprised if you are right in thinking that Brilliantine may have been shortened to 'Brilli' by men who used it.


    Angelcat :)
     
  4. Maxine

    Maxine New Member

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    I am kind of 'weirded out' too on this one, Angelcat. As I did RIGHT AWAY think of a hair oil product when I first read what you posted about the 'brilly tin'. But like the others, it did not fit, with Brylcream which I looked up before 'Billy Tin'. That sounds to me an rather Austrailian, or South African way of saying 'Billy Can'.


    I was amazed to find out that it is in German dictionaries too as 'brilliantine' and also in an older American one I have too.


    It did seem to come in tins 'solidified' and bottles, liquid form, as well, and in ladies' and mens' versions. I looked on 'Flea Bay' too. Lol! You should be an historian, you seem to be a great researcher!


    Ask her why the big deal that she lost the 'Brilli Tin' that day? I bet THAT is a story. It is not as if it was an expensive bit of kit. Not like losing a leather coat on a bus, or something like that - disaster and huge expense. I wonder where she was going, or what she was doing, that it was so important to have it? Something significant, beyond the hair product, had to be going on for her to remember. Was she going for a major interview? A hot date?


    That Jasmine of yours is a 'wow'! Lol!
     
  5. Maxine

    Maxine New Member

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    PS Anglecat.


    In the First World War we all, on both sides, bought our own coats for most of that war, as pilots.


    They came in many styles but they all cost a fortune. If you left your COAT on a bus, then. GO NUTS!


    But what Jasmine is reporting is the equal to as if you had lost your bottle of shampoo on a bus in this life, WHY would you recall it?


    Though, on the other hand, maybe it was just the sight of the bus? I think there has to be more to it, or well could be, that she was stressed by not looking as 'groomed' as she wished to be then for . . . someone/something at the other end of the bus trip.
     
  6. Angelcat

    Angelcat Senior Registered

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    I accept the compliment graciously! Especially in view of the fact that I have turned up some small amount of info that may link to the possible child's past life memory that Susan told me about involving her neighbour's daughter. I really thought that one was a lost cause until I found this mention of a Marguerite Haupt in an article about the life of Mable Stark. Here is the pertinent info:


    A tiger kills by seizing its prey by the shoulders and then pulling it down so that it is lying on top of the tiger. Then, with a single sweep of hindleg claws, the tiger removes its victim's stomach, the animal dying as it watches the tiger feed on its viscera. It was in this manner that Al G Barnes' first tiger trainer, a woman named Marguerite Haupt, died. When Stark first arrived at the all-new Al G Barnes circus, she was given a job training a team of performing goats, a job she neither liked nor excelled at. To get Haupt's old job she had to convince the head cat trainer, a grumpy Hungarian named Louis Roth, to hire her. This she accomplished by marrying him - years later, she would unashamedly confess that all her marriages, bar one, were a means of either aiding her career or extricating herself from a crisis. Roth, meanwhile, was the premier big cat trainer of his day, largely due to a technique he had developed. In 1912, Pavlov had not yet conducted his landmark studies in animal behaviour, and the truth was that trainers really didn't understand what made an animal do anything. Every other cat man prior to Roth had trained by hitting the animals until they did what they were told. Roth figured out that animals became much more tractable if you gave them a chunk of horse meat whenever they did what they were asked. It was this method - Roth called it "gentling" - he taught to Stark, who then employed it to train the three tigers that mauled Haupt.


    Although her name was Marguerite and not Margaret, it is close enough for her to be a definate candidate, especially as everything else seems to match. Anyone interested in reading the entire article about Mable Stark, it's here:

    http://www.geocities.ws/books2movies_mail/marvelousmabelstark-b2m.html

    I shall try to find a moment to ask Jasmine about the 'brilly tin' tomorrow and I will see if she can tell me why it was important to her.


    Angelcat :)
     
  7. Maxine

    Maxine New Member

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    That is really fascinating about the tiger trainer called Marguerite, Anglecat.


    Well, reading your link sure doesn't make me want to run off to join the circus and start training tigers! If that woman 'Susan' knows was Marguerite it is hardly surprising she'd be sufficiently traumatized to have p/l memories. What a truly horrible death. It is amazing that Stark woman survived that terrible mauling.


    'Nice' to think the Romans used to intentionally subject people to such a fate for public entertainment.


    I am dying to hear what Jasmine says about the 'Brilli tin'. I was very sad to note, by the way, that if she was that chap you think back then, her p/l name is on one of the numerous monuments to the missing. :( I don't feel that sort of thing helps people, not being given a proper burial. Of course it happened all too often in the Great War.


    I found the Menin Gate in Ypres just heart breaking when I went there. It is HUGE and covered in names, all missing. There is another huge monument at Theipval (sp?) the same.


    Fascinating as all this is, I really do hope this is not going to haunt Jasmine all her present life. It is really good that you are giving her some validation and a bit of a 'talking cure' now. Hopefully that will settle it.


    Her yelling 'B*stard' struck me as very authentic too, by the way. Swear words are often the last ones on black boxes in airliners that have crashed. It was probably the worst word she knew back then as a nicely brought up young man.'Anglo Saxon' words would only have been used by 'enlisted men', not officers.
     
  8. ChrisR

    ChrisR Administrator Emeritus Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Hi Angelcat,


    Did you get a chance to ask Jasmine about her 'brilly tin'? I'm falling off the edge of my seat with anticipation here : angel


    Chris :)
     
  9. Angelcat

    Angelcat Senior Registered

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    Hi Chris, Maxine & others interested in Jasmine's memories.


    Sorry it's taken a while to get back with something, but I didn't get much of chance during last week to speak with Jasmine at the nursery. However, she was with me in my home yesterday afternoon and evening because her mum looked like she was going to have her baby and 'Susan' and Jasmine's father took her mum to the hospital. So far, the little one has still not appeared...maybe tonight! Jasmine is excited.


    Anyhow, I had a long conversation with Jasmine about the 'brilly tin' and other things. It would take too long to give every detail of that conversation, so I have condensed it to this:


    It was clear to me once I heard her pronunciation that she was attempting the word Brilliantine and not saying brilly tin, so full marks, Maxine for thinking of that one because if you hadn't I might still be trying to figure out what she was saying. Jasmine also confirmed that she had bought some that was in a tin and that she had lost it on a bus. When I showed her the ad for Brilliantine on my computer, she was interested but didn't show any particular recognition of it. Maybe there were different brands around at the time or maybe she doesn't remember what it looked like. She further confirmed that she had bought it in a barber shop and added that she had gone there to have her hair cut with money her father had given her. When I asked her if she was talking about her daddy at home, she said, "No, not my now daddy, another daddy." I asked her if this was the daddy she had when she had her Camel plane and she nodded. She could not remember what this previous daddy had looked like, or indeed, her previous mummy or their names. She did, however, remember an "old grandmamma" - see below.


    When I asked her how she felt about losing her Brilliantine, she told me the same thing she had told 'Susan'; that it was "Very annoying!" and she also said "Bother!" When I asked her if she went back to the barber shop and bought some more, she shook her head and said, "I didn't have any money left." When asked how old she was, she couldn't remember, I figure that if she was being given money for a haircut by her father that she was maybe early teens. When asked why she wanted the Brilliantine, she looked a little surprised and said she wanted her hair to look nice.


    When I talked to her about the vintage cars she had seen at the steam rally, she told me that she had once driven one that had lots of shiny bits on it and a big horn. The vintage bus was just like the one she used to ride on. She also said that she sometimes went to Pancras on a bus (she almost certainly means St Pancras which would place her in London) to see her "old grandmama", who had a walking stick and an "ear pipe". Jasmine indicated that this 'pipe' was held to the ear. I searched the internet and found a number pictures of old ear trumpets, which were widely used before the invention of hearing aids! Jasmine was fascinated by them, although we couldn't find one that was exactly like the one she remembered her old grandmama having. The old grandmama also wore a shiny black dress and tiny glasses.


    I found it interesting that she called this lady her grandmama. Her present maternal grandmother, 'Susan' she calls "Nanna", and her father's mother, she calls "Grammy". Grandmama is definately an old fashioned and rather upper class name for a grandmother.


    We had quite a conversation about the new baby her mum is expecting and about starting school in September and then out of the blue she said, "I 'spect Michael Jackson will come back." (Her dad is a fan of Jackson's music and Jasmine knows that he died recently.) I agreed that he would come back one day, whereupon she said, "I told daddy that he's in the big sunshine having a nice sleep, I 'spect." I asked her if she remembered being in 'the big sunshine' after her Camel plane crashed and she nodded and said most emphatically, "Everybody goes to the big sunshine when they die. Mummy said it's called heaven but you don't come back any more again.....never." She paused and then said, "But I think that's not true, is it?" I wish you could have heard the way she said this and seen the expression on her little face; it really made me smile. Jasmine noticed my amusement and we laughed together.


    When asked if she had had a nice sleep when she went to 'the big sunshine', she said "Yes, and then you're supposed to forget." This interests me because I have read of people under regression who have talked of entering a sleep state for a period of time in between incarnations or being aware of others deeply asleep. It seems to be associated with having had a difficult life or traumatic death. I asked if 'the big sunshine' looked like the sunshine we see outside. Jasmine said, "No, it's bigger sunshine than that....and (very enthusiastically) sometimes it has blue and rainbows!" She also told me she sometimes could see "twinkly, twinkly stars" when she closed her eyes during a Quiet Time session at nursery. It does not surprise me that she remembers a past life because she is obviously very 'open'.


    I will let you all know her reaction to her new sibling, when he/she decides to put in an appearence. I wonder if he/she will later have any past life memories. For Jasmine's mother's sake, I rather hope not!


    Angelcat :)
     
  10. Maxine

    Maxine New Member

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    Thanks very much for the update, Angelcat. Like Chris I have been on the edge of my seat. Lol!


    I am glad the Brilliantine helped.


    Jasmine sure is a character. I wonder if her mother will ever come round to listening to her?
     
  11. ChrisR

    ChrisR Administrator Emeritus Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Yes, thanks for the update, I'm really enjoying this thread. Jasmine is very lucky to have you to talk about all this with, and I really think her mother is missing out on a part of her daughter that is very special, I hope she comes round one day and opens her mind.


    Please let us know if there are any more updates.


    Chris :)
     
  12. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Thank you for posting Angelcat - it's always a pleasure to read your updates and findings. :D :cool
     
  13. alaskanlaughter

    alaskanlaughter Senior Registered

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    Thanks for the update! :) I've been reading along with interest.
     
  14. Angelcat

    Angelcat Senior Registered

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    Jasmine's mum is very nice and a very devoted mother. Perhaps she will change her views about past lives eventually through her own mother, 'Susan'. I saw 'Susan' earlier and she said that she found Carol's book very interesting and that she would like to read more just so long as it is sensible stuff. :thumbsup:


    Chris, I doubt that anything important happens by chance, so I tend to think that the fact that I was/am in the right place at the right time for Jasmine to share her memories and feel supported and know she is believed is meant to be. I have been wondering recently if she and I have known eachother before. I will indeed post any updates there may be.


    'Susan' told me that the new baby has still not arrived yet and is now four days overdue. Apparently they know it is a little girl but have not told Jasmine because they want it to be a surprise. 'Susan' said that a few months ago Jasmine told her parents, "Please make sure it is a sister because otherwise I might have to send it back!" :laugh: She is such a little character!


    Thank you Deborah and Alaskanlaughter for your kind comments.


    hug2.gif to all


    Angelcat :)
     
  15. teacup

    teacup member

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    ahahaha, her comment in regards to Michael Jackson is HiLarIouS. :laugh: and incredibly frank and sweet. ;) It is funny with all the press going on with his death and and now much respected life, you can't help but wonder about his next life and hope its one filled with a more loving father and open environment for him to be the little child he needed to be. Whenever I pray on Sundays, I always think of those souls like that and send them healing vibrations. They need our prayers even when they are in their "sleep state." ;)She seems so healthy and happy and content with her conversations with yoU! It's very cute. And it is so comforting to hear a child comment so frankly that he will come back. Sometimes in the grown up world with all the daily stresses and sadness projected on the news and in things like his funeral, you just focus on the sad parts. And her comment brings to light that there is an up side to death, even his and sadness can be wiped away with that eternal bliss she is talking about, and the chance to have life anew the way the soul desires it. Until all the desires are filled and we are ready to fully only desire God. :) Wonderful little girl!
     
  16. Angelcat

    Angelcat Senior Registered

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    I'll tell you something else that should amuse you. Last year Jasmine's father turned up to collect her from the nursery and I noticed he had one of Michael Jackson's cds playing in the car, which is how I realised he was a fan of his. Anyhow, Jasmine commented at the time that, "He (Jackson) gets hiccups when he sings." Her father smiled and said she was referring to the sound Jackson made in the back of his throat on many of his songs! Her dad also said that he had overheard her singing along to Jackson's Billie Jean, but instead of singing "Billie Jean, is not my lover...", Jasmine was singing, "Billie Jean is not my mother." :laugh:


    Angelcat :)
     
  17. Angelcat

    Angelcat Senior Registered

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    I have just picked up an email from 'Susan' and Jasmine's little sister arrived at 10.02pm. She weighs 7lb 1oz and has blond hair. Jasmine doesn't know yet because she's asleep.


    Let your life come amongst them like a flame of light, my child, unflickering and pure, and delight them into silence. Rabindranath Tagore


    Angelcat :)
     
  18. alaskanlaughter

    alaskanlaughter Senior Registered

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    Thanks for the update. :) And congratulations to them on a new addition to the family. :)
     
  19. MoonstoneMum

    MoonstoneMum New Member

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    Wow... I have been captivated by this story and spent a bit too much time reading it but glad I did.


    One thing I wanted to comment about was that my grandfather used to call his air force issue clothes `fats` which is short for fatigues he said. He is retired from Canadian the Air Force. That may be the reference to the fat coat...


    The other thing was that my daughter claimed today that Micheal Jackson sent her this plastic ring she found... We are not fans but I know they talked about him at daycare. She said he sent it for her to show he loved her. She knows he is dead so it`s interesting that she speaks of him that way. She is 4.5 and we have a long story too, I will post it at a later time because I have procrastinated too long here in this forum upon accidentally finding it today.


    I will be back, and often to hear of Jasmines story.
     
  20. Angelcat

    Angelcat Senior Registered

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    Hi MoonstoneMum,


    Many thanks for this information. I shall look forward to reading your daughter's story. :thumbsup: I know only too well how difficult it can be to find the time to post here, so I just make time!


    Angelcat :)
     
  21. AKP

    AKP New Member

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    Awesome!


    As such this forum has completely changed my perspective. Jasmine and her story are awesome!


    Thanks, Angelcat!


    AKP.
     
  22. Angelcat

    Angelcat Senior Registered

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    Hi Everyone,


    Jasmine's new little sister is just beautiful; like a porcelain doll. (Thank you for your kind wishes for her family, Alaskanlaughter). Jasmine is very taken with Louisa and doesn't seem to be jealous at all. Indeed, she is very keen to help look after her.


    On Saturday last, 'Susan' invited my son and I to lunch and Jasmine was there with her parents and Louisa. Afterwards we sat talking and Jasmine explained to me how she could tell when Louisa was hungry; "See, she sucks her tongue like this." 'Susan' made the comment that Jasmine is quite the little mother and Jasmine immediately responded, very nonchantly, with "Well, I've been a mother before." Jasmine's mum smiled and said, "She means she's a mother when she plays with her dolls." However, I saw 'Susan' glance at me and Jasmine looked across at her mother and sighed. I had to bite my lip and think of something sad to avoid laughing.


    When I saw Jasmine this morning at nursery, I reminded her of what she had said and asked if she had meant that she played mummy with her dolls. Shaking her head, she said "Noooo, I mean a real mummy....another time.


    Me: "You remember being a mummy in another time?"


    Jasmine: "Yes."


    Me: "Can you tell me about that?"


    Jasmine: "You remember....we were friends and used to sit together sewing and....and my Ned got knocked over by your cow!" She chuckled at the thought of this.


    Me: "Really?"


    Jasmine: "Yes, really. You remember."


    Me: "I don't think I do at the moment."


    Jasmine: "Well, you will, I 'spect."


    At this point, we were interrupted by James who had an upset tummy this morning and needed my help with the consequences :eek: Before, Jasmine went home, I said we would talk about this some more if she was happy to do so and she said, "Ok!"


    I have been feeling confused since then, partly because I am not sure if I should trust what Jasmine told me. She was in a very buoyant mood when she arrived this morning and she can be a tease. For example, soon after Louisa was born, she shared that personal news at nursery during our 'My News' session. When another child (who has twin brothers) asked her if her mummy had had just one baby, Jasmine replied, "Noooo, she had twenty five!" Jasmine cleared enjoyed the laughter this provoked, particularly in the adults present. She clearly has an understanding of the ridiculous and knows it can make others laugh.


    Something else which made us, at the nursery, realise just how clever she is came up a couple of weeks ago when she pointed out that the line, 'the mouse fell down' in the nursery rhyme Hickory, Dickory, Dock, does not rhyme with 'the clock struck one.' She subsequently suggested the line should be changed to '"the mouse fell down on his bum." which of course does rhyme with 'one'. She also thought her version far more amusing, as did the other children!


    I feel particularly suspicious of, "...and my Ned got knocked over by your cow." Something tells me this may have come from a storybook. Jasmine can now read and although not yet five, she is reading at the six year old level. It would also seem to be typical of her humour. I shall have to catch her in a more serious mood to ask her again about being a real mummy in another time.


    Recently, I have asked myself during meditation if Jasmine and I have known eachother in the past, but all I got every time was her little face smiling at me. I now wonder if my meditations could have prompted her telepathically, if that is possible. I felt drawn to her from the beginning, although I have tended to put that down to the fact that she is a particularly appealing little girl and, as mentioned before, I feel I was meant to be 'there' for her with regard to her memories.


    As my Grandma used to say, "Never a dull moment!"


    Angelcat :)


    P.S. I am delighted that this forum and Jasmine's story has changed your perspective, AKP. :thumbsup:
     
  23. W.A. HEART

    W.A. HEART Senior Registered

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    Wow Angelcat! Your post made me smile! :) Jasmine is a real character! :laugh:


    I totally appreciate how careful you are about not jumping to conclusions. I have two children myself and I know how imagination, humour and reality can blend into what they say.


    I believe it's possible for Jasmine to tap into your past lives telepathically, yes. I do not know if this could be the case or not.


    I think the "my Ned was knocked over by your cow" :D might come from something she read, yes - but I wouldn't bet on it either. :rolleyes: As I read I could almost see the two of you sitting together on the porch chuckling over Ned and his accident...


    Keep us posted!


    All of the best wishes to Jasmine and her family! :)


    Love


    Welsh
     
  24. teacup

    teacup member

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    LOL :laugh:that is funny!what a character..and I love reading all your posts. I look forward to them when I sign in, keep posting :)
     
  25. ciruela

    ciruela New Member

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    Hi! I'm new to this forum and I had to post in this thread :)


    I love this story! I've always believed in reincarnation and Jasmine's story is a strong validation for me :thumbsup:


    Looking forward to new updates ;)
     
  26. ChrisR

    ChrisR Administrator Emeritus Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Welcome to the forum ciruela :) : it is a great story!
     
  27. alaskanlaughter

    alaskanlaughter Senior Registered

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    Welcome to the forum! I agree, Jasmine's story is fascinating! :thumbsup:
     
  28. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Former Moderator

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    Welcome ciruela. :)
     
  29. Natalie

    Natalie New Member

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    Just read this most interesting
     
  30. Angelcat

    Angelcat Senior Registered

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    Hi Everyone,


    A bit of an update for you. I have talked with Jasmine several times now about her statement that she had been a mummy before and that we were friends who used to sit sewing, and I think she does definately remember something. Indeed, she seems to remember two distinctly different occasions that she was a mother; one when she had "A boy with a bald head and a bit of hair....and browny skin like Sanjeev." (Sanjeev was a child at the nursery. He is Asian and has a golden brown skin) and another when she had "A girl with long hair and a baby who played on the floor." In the case of the latter, this is when she remembers sitting with me and sewing. We were ".....in a room with a big fireplace and a table...and babies sitting on the floor. One baby was yours and one baby was mine." I asked what we were sewing and she was unsure. Were we talking? "Yes, and we were friends." Apparently we wore "long dresses and big aprons."


    Regarding Ned and the cow, she said. "One day your cow knocked him over in the muck heap.....and he was all covered in muck and....and he was very cross and very smelly! He throwed his hat down and said he going to take a berts to that cow of yours." (I am thinking that "a berts" may be a birch, such as a birch broom). She is adamant that she remembers this and that it isn't a story that she read or that someone read to her. It seems to be something that surfaced either in the form of a dream or during the period when she was first awake because she said, "I saw it in my head in the morning when I was in bed." (I've had that kind of experience myself; it can be like a film running in the mind.) Something which I think lends validity to it as a possible past life memory is that Jasmine commented that she didn't like the smell of the muck on Ned. In other words, when she saw this event in her mind it was accompanied by a smell.


    On the subject of Jasmine's possible past life as a WW1 pilot; about a month ago when I saw 'Susan', she told me that Jasmine had given her a graphic description of falling out of her Camel plane which included experiencing "bubbles and blood in my mouth" and "noises in my body" when she hit the ground.


    'Susan' commented that she didn't think it possible for a young child to make something like that up and I agreed.


    As always, your thoughts are welcome.


    Welcome ciruela!


    Angelcat :)
     

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