Past Life Meditation - and Spiritual Presence

Discussion in 'Past Life Memories' started by Deborah, Sep 6, 2004.

  1. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    I thought I would share an experience I had with my daughter last night. She ended up spending the night and she suggested we do a meditation together. I agreed and opened up the "OM" CD that I ordered last month. (IT IS NOT THE SAME AS IT WAS SIX YEARS AGO! William Bulham is going to get an e-mail from me! :mad:) This is the first meditation we have done together.

    I stopped it after 8 minutes and put on another CD titled Mystic Bowls. We were relaxed, and meditating, but the voices chanting in the new "OM" CD doesn't have the same effect as the older version!

    I laid back down, centered immediately; we had left the focus to be what ever and where ever she needed to be. In the back of my mind though I wanted to know my last life time with her -before this one. I saw her as my Aunt in India, showing me dance moves, and jewelry, and beautiful colored silks. Then I saw her come into a room holding a brand new baby in her arms. That's when it happened.

    I felt a presence in the room and actually opened my eyes to see if someone was standing there. I felt the presence, to be there with and for Shannon. I closed my eyes (about 2 minutes had passed since we began....) Shannon immediately began to cry, cringe, strain, made choking sounds...being her mother I could not stay into a meditation and not know if she is OK.

    I looked at her body -she looked as if she was in labor.....I asked her if she was OK...she couldn't talk to me, I told her it was all right...and asked her who was with her...she gasped and blurted out "they're all dead, I am alone"...she continued to stain, and clinch her fists....I told her to leave her body and see the situation from a 3rd person perspective....she didn't ...she continued to cry, almost in silence as if hiding...and so afraid....I told her to look down - to look at her feet...after another minute of straining and crying I told her to move forward in time.

    GGggesshhhhh I wasn't prepared to do a regression with her and I didn't want to lead her or upset her more..so I did the only thing I knew - to take her to the future. She was into that altered state SO FAST it startled me I couldn't believe it. She was DEEP DEEP and so emotional.

    The future seemed to be calmer for her...the sobbing stopped, she still made strange sounds -- so I laid down next to her and continued to try to meditate with her.

    After 25 minutes of meditation she came out of it and said -I need to stop..... Then she said -Mom did you feel any presence the room? I said yes...she said "That presence tilted my head back and put its hands on my chest and pushed real hard, I almost couldn't breath...it was as if its energy catapulted me right into the past. I had had no lead in -no entry into the experience... it happend so fast!

    She continued to tell me that she was a young girl -14 years old and in labor. They were all killed -it was a massacre - she said that she was the only one that lived...she was in labor hiding from them. She was black, 14 and pregnant. Her "husband" was 16 - black and killed in the massacre. She said he was funny and sweet and she loved him dearly. When I told her to move forward she said she was in a small wooden structure -doing voodoo magic -and blowing smoke from her hand to the person needing her medicine. Someone had taught her -after the massacre - the ancient African medicine voodum ways.

    I could go on here - but my point of the post -is the presence -in the room -physically touching, and moving her head and her and my awareness of it. Shannon studied the Brazilian religion while in Brazil for a year in 2001... I felt it was rooted from there but not sure..

    I have felt presences with me before in meditations, nothing new there, I have been guided by spirits in meditations..yeah got that. BUT to have a presence be so PHYSICAL and to heighten the experience SO DANG FAST for her is amazing to me. Once I changed the CD - to the Tibetan Bowls only -she was catapulted by the sound and the spirit in the room to an immediate deep altered state and emotional trauma from the past. I tell you - she wasn't meditating more than 2 minutes when it hit.

    What are your thoughts about this?
     
  2. Tinkerman

    Tinkerman Administrator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Interesting, intense...any feelings as to who or what this other presence was? What age is your daughter in this life? It's good you have the ability to remain calm and wise in a situation like that. It shows us how we sit on the precipice of a vast spiritual realm. Our use, interpretaion and education from it all, if good and compassionate, a true blessing in our progress into the future.
     
  3. kris0503

    kris0503 Senior Registered

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    My thoughts

    Deborah, I was disappointed when you left India and moved on to Africa. :) On a serious note, I think we feel 'presence' through modifications of Kundalini. This includes any phyisical or physiological effects. More importantly, our past does not leave us easily. We have to decide to put it behind us, especially since a lot of it is simply not worth hanging on to.
     
  4. Aaron

    Aaron Senior Registered

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    That sucks that the OM cd isn't the same. I feel that it does work for me, but now I am curious about the older one:(

    Sorry Shannon had such a bad experience. It's probably for the better though, getting out the traumatic events. I wonder what purpose it will serve her, remembering that particular life right now.
     
  5. Mama2HRB

    Mama2HRB Senior member

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    Deborah ~

    I am very sorry that your daughter had a bad experience - it must have been horrifying!
     
  6. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Just to set the record straight.

    Shannon is 25 years old. She has a five almost six year old son and is married to a man from Brazil. Yes that makes me grandma. :) Her memories were of slavery in America before the Civil War. Not Africa. ;)

    I have given Aaron the original CD to see the difference between the new version and the older one from 1999. ;) He doesn't have to pout any longer. :):):)

    Shannon does NOT feel that the experience was a bad experience. Although she cried, and trembled and was afraid during the meditation the experience itself -for her was a good one. It has opened MANY new doors of possibility and opportunity for her. Both in compassion and self awareness.

    She is perplexed, internalizing it, intellectualizing it, writing it all down and looking for the connections between this life and that one. One connection we both noticed was that in her life as a 14 year old black slave girl -her baby boy -whom she raised alone did not have a father figure. Having a father figure in her son Lucas's life now -is one of her top priorities. She works hard at her marriage, and the relationship between the father, herself and their son.

    Shannon has seen TV presentations regarding regressions and watched as people reacted emotionally to things -the viewers cannot see. Her initial response was -imagination and internal trauma from the here and now. BUT she believes in reincarnation and has had glimpses of her past lives many times. Although she has never done a meditation regression with the intention of experiencing the past except once at age 12 with my mother; Her body's reaction, the tears, the emotions of being alone and afraid - could not be imagination or staged. She said the emotional reaction came before the imagery, before she could see what was happening. Therefore - she is learning the difference between memory and imagination.

    The presence however -a validating experience for us both -is still a mystery.
     
  7. Goldenage

    Goldenage Senior Registered

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    Deborah,
    perhaps if one sees that the "presence" was (is) an aspect of your daughter within the context of the regression scene (ie the explanation given by Kris) then the "speed" of the event becomes understandable. This feeling (of opression?) was there all the time and in the instant, merely became manifest but in such a way that you both noticed it.
    Robin:)
     
  8. Angella Ashton

    Angella Ashton Senior Registered

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    Since so many people died in such a short time,minutes really...Maybe that was the powerful presence that you both felt because it was connected to that event.All these souls together ,the pain,trauma-all spirits together experiencing this horror.These were my thoughts about this story...
    Thank you for sharing it ,it was great to read it.
     
  9. Angella Ashton

    Angella Ashton Senior Registered

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    It also crossed my mind that the return to the past was instant ,barely any warning ,just like there was no warning when people lost their lives-fast,barely any warning,they were pulled into the spirit world- life was over for them...
     
  10. lizeroo

    lizeroo Senior Registered

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    Amazing story, Deborah. It sounds intense and scary to me but I am glad that Shannon found it healing. You and your family have such interesting spiritual experiences. Thank you for sharing.
    :cool
     
  11. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Very interesting......

    I understand the premise for what you and Kris are suggesting Robin. I also know it's difficult to express. But I have to ask the following -

    You and I are connected - on a cosmic level. The holographic principle. But we are also separate. Your physical body is living far from my physical body. We are aware of each other via the Internet. In our separateness via this life and this format -we are communicating using a computer.

    What about individuals -souls/spirits - that we have known in another life and that are communicating with us?? Are not they connected to us -and yet separate?

    I know - they too are part of us -we are connected - we are all ONE. But they also seem to have a separate - individual -- aspect. An awareness that is shared with us -- but not our own.

    See -Curious girl mentioned the name Sarah. :) Since 1985 -I have known that one of my spirit guides was named Sarah. She was a black slave and my best friend in the mid 1800's. Coincidence - that she mentioned that name. Perhaps..then again - perhaps not. ;) This also brings up Angela's point.

    Curious Girl - I have not yet experienced memories with Shannon in that particular past life. I get the feeling -we were acquaintances -- we knew of each other and met occasionally. But that's all. I also feel that Shannon was older than I was in that life...by about 20 years or so.

    Although William Buhlman's advertises the "OM" CD as an OB tool -it's all about where you focus your attention. Consciousness doesn't have limits -- you're in control. It enables deep altered states...........very deep!

    Thank you all for your input.
     
  12. Goldenage

    Goldenage Senior Registered

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    Deborah,
    the word holographic is somewhat intellectual - the connection is much more than that but I digress.

    If we agree that there is unity at one end of the scale and multiplicity at the other and if furthermore, the scale does not exist but on the contrary perception alone comprehends one aspect or the other then we can think about the consequences from a practical standpoint. The ego is responsible for the subdivision and, the multiplicity has, so to speak, infinity as its limit. The world of spirits, for instance represents multiplicity as an expectation arising from the the apparent multiplicity exibited by physicality - a parallel expectation in the spirit.

    It is the ego only that multiplies aspects of the greater-self into fractionated splinters. One recognises an aspect of the deeper self as seperate, as an advisor, as a spirit guide and so forth. Fine as an interim device but there is one self alone and you are (in your depths) that entity. It is merely a matter of perception and each handles it in accordance with its understanding.

    The road to integration consists in steps taken to recognise aspects of one's-self. In other words deep meditation is required in order to see that what appears at first to be a seperate spirit is in fact a deeper aspect of one's self only

    Think of a glass-rod with a light at one end,the other is pulled out into separate glass micro-fibers. At the tip of each appears a tiny light. These lights look at one another and see each as different (different spirits) but if they look inside they see just one and the same original and only light.

    :)
     
  13. to2bizzy

    to2bizzy New Member

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    Hello all,

    I am Deborah's sister and Shannon's aunt. Had to put my two cents in here. Shannon and I have been very close, Debbie and I often joke about how she should have been my daughter instead of hers because we are so much alike! :) When she was a young girl people would think she was mine. We even look alike. We still are close and feel a definite connection in this life time that I think can only be explained by past lifes that we have shared. Debbie and my mother have seen past lifes that Shannon and I have had together. One of them being in India, which Debbie refers to in her post. I was Shannon's sister in law in that life time. I know there must have been others as well. Even though I've never seen anything about the India life time, I know in my heart this to be true. There is a very deep bond between us.

    Shannon and I have talked many times about this and the spiritual experiences, her mother (Deborah) and my mother (her grandmother) have had. Both Shannon and I truly believe in reincarnation ect. Although both of us have not had the experiences they have had. So it was very interesting and exciting to me that Shannon had this experience and of course I had to call her to find out her perception of the whole thing.

    She was very excited, and did tell me more than once that she was not afraid during the regression. That even though she was feeling all the emotions and seeing what had happened she knew it was not happening to her now. She also said she heard her mother (Deborah) talking to her but was unable to talk back. She came away from the experience drained she said, but exhilerated about the experience, and can now relate to experiences her mother and grandmother talk about! She also of course wants to do it again to find out more.

    We also talked about how perhaps the reason neither one of us has had these types of experiences before is that we have not taken the time to do research or try meditation, ect. I have often expressed my fear of either having a bad experience, or just plain being unable to have this type of experience to Debbie, who tells me that I am very capable and just need to give it a try! So now its my turn! :eek: Posting here is a first step I guess! :)

    Terri
     
  14. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    YAhoooooooooo

    Hiya sis,

    Welcome to the forum. It's about time ;) Yes it' a first step.
    Let's do that meditation soon, there is such a deep deep feeling for me - there are HUGE issues and things to work through -for Shannon - you - me - Jen, and Craig (our brother). Being a slave in the south was not an easy thing to live through. Perhaps this time around -we can deal with and let go of -those issues.

    You'll find everyone here to be compassionate and learning. Just like you *S*S*S and me. :) I am at school -gotta run -but will come back this evening .
     
  15. to2bizzy

    to2bizzy New Member

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    Thanks for the welcome Deb, and Bluehayze! Better late than never! :)

    Deb don't forget our brother Kevin ;) You know me, forever the fixer! :)
     
  16. Kelly

    Kelly Administrator Emeritus

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    Double Deborah :eek: Can the forum handle such energy ;)

    A big welcome hug from me Terri, I've heard so many wonderful things about you, so it's great to see your name pop up in here at last. It's late here, so I don't want to go into full babble mode, but just wanted to give you a wave and say how much I've enjoyed reading this thread and would love to know how any further explorations go :D

    Don't worry, we'll wait till you've got your feet warm and you feel at home before we start torturing you for information on Deborah :eek: :rolleyes: :eek:
     
  17. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    LOLOLOLOL Oh Dear -I've been had. :eek:
     
  18. Reynardine

    Reynardine Senior Registered

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    It's great to have you here as well, Terri! I'm sure you will enjoy this forum!

    Nathalli
     
  19. Goldenage

    Goldenage Senior Registered

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    Deborah,
    I added a bit to my reply above
     
  20. to2bizzy

    to2bizzy New Member

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    Thanks for all the warm welcomes and encouraging words! :D I've heard good things about you too Kelly ;-) thanks for the hug!

    I'll let you know how things progress for me.

    Two of us hee hee! Double Deborah yes indeed! And yes your doomed Debbie! :) Hmmmmmmmm lets see what do you all want to know ;-) On the other hand, she'd get even with me! :eek:
     
  21. Kelly

    Kelly Administrator Emeritus

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    Good things??? Don't believe her it's all lies!!!

    LOLOL...well going by your username Terri (and if Deborah's example is anything to go by), you probably won't have enough time to chat about spiritual stuff AND share stories of "devlin" Deborah and her youth - so let's just say she got lucky this time ;)
     
  22. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Thank you Robin for your illustrated your pov. I agree with you -- and have on a few occasions experienced what you are trying to put to words. Beautifully done BTW. ;)

    I have been thinking about this for a few days now -- and reflecting on my daughter; who she is, what I know about her. She is strong willed, stubborn and fighting Irish, determined and very powerful in her own right. This I am sure -played a part in her experience.

    One of the things I have learned about consciousness -via physics -is that it seems to act in the universe by creating paths, and that our reality - in the universe does not follow a single path but move as waves until the object - is observed. The founder of the uncertainty principle of Quantum physics, Werner Heisenberg said The path comes into existence only when we see it.'

    Fred Alan Wolf stated in his book The Eagle's Quest - that "Believing is seeing" - not the other way around. If we open our minds and hearts to pure potential, the possibilities are endless. We are no longer bound to the body, time or space. Perhaps because Shannon was ready -and searching -consciously or unconsciously -she was catapulted to a path -that allowed her to experience part of herself -that we perceive to be a past life. Perhaps the energy, and vibration was heightened because we did it together. I do know that shared meditation can have a profound result. It reminds me of the saying When the two become one -the will of God can be done (or something along those lines).

    Has anyone else here tried a shared meditation? What was your experience?
     
  23. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Me a devlin? Perhaps. ..........

    LOLOLO Kelly you crack me up. OK OK I admit it. ---*S*S*S*S*
     
  24. to2bizzy

    to2bizzy New Member

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    Kelly, I'm going to try to be here as often as I can. Yes your right, about finding time, but I'll try to make time.

    As for Deborah a devlin? :eek: Not my Debbie! ;) Hee Hee! Ok, Deb, I'll keep your secrets, if you keep mine! :rolleyes:
     
  25. Goldenage

    Goldenage Senior Registered

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    Sandra: Thanks – I went to Toronto to visit with my grandson & granddaughter

    Deborah: well Werner Heisenberg is just trying to be a good scientist by postulating that the path actually exists (objectively so to speak – seems logical after all) prior to the seeing but, IMHO it is just exactly the opposite namely The path comes into existence only when we create it. Prior to this it does not exist (except as an option within the meaning of omniscience in relation to the supreme). Now it is true that once the path is created one may forget it due to the tendencies and pressures arising from the creation and thus the remembering could perhaps be described by saying that the path comes into existence when we see it but this is maybe pushing the envelope a bit. But in any event I agree exactly that because Shannon was ready -and searching -consciously or unconsciously -she was catapulted to a path -that allowed her to experience part of herself -that we perceive to be a past life. This is precisely how it works. It also follows that because the two of you were together this comprehension becomes open to you – believing is seeing. (but which came first the chicken or the egg?).

    Interesting because it reveals the working mechanism of karma - the details of the current life being prodded into existence by these veiled happenings of the almost forgotten past(?)

    I think maybe that anyone participating in a regression session is taking part in a joint meditation (along with the therapist).
     
  26. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    More thoughts laced with an experience

    HI Robin,

    I have another question. You said
    I had an interesting experience happen the other day. It's been a while since I have experienced a spirit and now I am questioning what I saw. I was talking to one of my colleagues in his office. His name is Rob. He teaches Color and Design (so do I). He is 3/4 Chinese and 1/4 Mexican. He is only 28 years old and has been teaching full time for three years. A real whiz kid. Geshhhhhhh right out of college and 25 when he got a full time gig. I really like working with him. He is GREAT!

    I was in his office listening to him tell me about his experiences teaching Color and Design, when suddenly I became aware of an older Chinese woman in spirit standing behind him. I could see her. She was maybe in her late 70's, in a long straight dress down to her knees. She told me "I am so proud of him." At that moment I realized that she must be his grandmother, at least that was the feeling I got. She just stayed there -the entire time watching, listening and being proud of him. The feeling that was coming from her was just as important as seeing her presence. Sometime in the future I will ask him about his family and grandmother(s).

    My question is - my perception was specific -- this woman was Chinese, evidentially related to him. I got no indication that he was aware of her at the time. Is she a part of HIS greater and higher self? If she is "proud of HIM" -how can my experience be related to MY higher self?

    I know we are all connected and part of the WHOLE and ONE. I understand that when we experience spirit in its many forms that spirit too - goes back to the source. But in the moment -in the experience -there is separateness and specifics that inform me of the differences - in my here and now. To me - this is an important awareness. I think it is possible to be aware of spirit and still know that we all are ONE and go back to the Source. BUT in order to experience -we have to be able to know difference.

    Which again -still makes me wonder about Shannon's experience - ;)
     
  27. kris0503

    kris0503 Senior Registered

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    Layers and veils

    This is where I like the approach of Bhagavad Gita, as I understand it, and that I have discuused here. As I see it, reality is multilayered, in such a way that all the layers are simultaneouly true. This structure of reality is what mAyA means to me. It does not mean illusion as so many say. This is the only way I can make consistent sense of all that I experience varied as that may be. A fact that is true in fouth order reality is also true in higher order realitites, and vice versa, only its interpretation is different in different orders of reality. For most of us, our 'normal' home is the fourth order reality. What keeps us there is primal ignorance or nescience. As we gain in knowledge, we peel off the veils of maya, and and are able to dwell in higher order realities where the same experiences are seen in different light. To understand 'grandma' who stood behind Rob, I think it will help to understand the phantom of reincarnation. The phantom dies and is reborn while the sheaths make it seem like reincarnation. Of course, the difference is far too subtle but not just a nuance.
     
  28. dorika

    dorika Senior Registered

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    Deborah,

    Have you consider that you just have connected to your own
    focus in different timeframe, when you were related to him, and what you projected is your own image

    Connecting focuses in my experience have nothing to do with *higher* or *lower self* but the subjective connection and recognition of the individual who we share focuses...

    You're you, with all of your focuses, and if you accept the simultanous existences, then there is no relation to your *higher self* but your own essence...you not less then your other focus, and vica versa they ALL of YOU in the past, present and future...

    Just my 2c
     
  29. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    *S*S*S*S

    Thank you Kris and Dora for your explanations.

    I still maintain though -- that in the HERE and NOW --- in physical reality, we need to know difference. If we didn't know Difference, how would we know the SOURCE. Kind of like if Light was not a reality -then how would we know dark? And visa versa.

    I do understand -the "illusion - Maya - and simultaneous time." And I accept them as part of my reality too, and I am aware of how my soul -can be in many places -past present and future all at once. I am thankful for the experience, the awareness, and am learning to embrace these sorts of communications.

    Question -with all the discussion, and verbiage around experiences like this -that both of you present here on the CPL forum; What is your experience regarding spirit communication? How did the two of you work through, and come to understand your experiences as they relate to your past lives and/or with spirit communications?
     
  30. kris0503

    kris0503 Senior Registered

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    Understanding differences

    Deborah, I do not think of mAyA as illusion. As I wrote in my previous post:
    In my understanding of multilayered reality, all layers are real, just meaningful to a different extent. In my post on mAyA, I discussed the idea of varying degrees of delocalization of koshas (sheaths). There, I noted that our gross body is least delocalized (or almost all localized), subtle body is more delocalized, causal body is most delocalized. That led me, by induction, to surmise that inner core must be even more delocalized than the causal body. And by leap of faith, I arrived at the infinite delocalization of the core.

    What I did not do in that post is talk about the implications of partial delocalization of other 'bodies'. In an older post of mine, I had speculated that the totality of causal bodies constitutes AkAsha. Vedanta literature does indeed put forward similar ideas. In Vedanta, (individual) consciousness (Atman) associated with causal body in an individual is called prajnA and experiences states like deep sleep. (Undivided) consciousness (brahman) residing in totality of causal bodies (AkAsha?) is called akshara. Consciousness encased in subtle body is called taijasa and experiences states like dream states, while consciousness enfolded in totality of subtle bodies is called is called sutrAtman or hiraNyagarbha. Consciousness embodied in a gross body is called vishva and experiences waking state, that related to the totality of gross universe is called virATa. The three phases of consciousness we experience correspond to the three planes of the phenomenal appearance of all-that-is (brahman). These planes become increasingly substantial and differentiated away from the core.

    Based on the above, I will say that during your meditation, consciousness associated with your subtle body (taijasa) was roving around in the phenomenal plane of hiraNyagarbha, where it can link with other subtle bodies. Again, consciousness in hiraNyagarbha is not as localized as in gross universe, but differences remain there due to partial localization.

    Past lives are relevant to me through their karmic relation to my present life, (i.e., at the level of causal body). Thus details of past lives are not important to me. I focus my meditation on core consciousness. The goal for me is to experience three outer planes from the core. Hope this is of some help.
     

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