The Burning Times

Discussion in 'Past Life Memories' started by Manea, Aug 30, 2002.

  1. Manea

    Manea Senior Registered

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    Ok I know that there are a lot of kids that remember the more recent mass murder of Hitler, but who remembers their past lives or has kids that remember the Burning times as the Pagans call it...? When the Church went out and did a mass exstermination of witches or pagans (anyone who was not a believer essentially) They killed nearly 40 million women & children (some men). That is like 4 times more than Hitler BTW.

    Just wondering because I recently met a man who has deep feelings about those times and is now a Pagan.

    Namasté

    Manea
     
  2. Neshwa Pawithe

    Neshwa Pawithe New Member

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    Hi, I beleive I have seen a glimpse of a pst life when I was a Pagan person. It was in my dream time but I have had other memories in my dream time that I got the proof for. I found myself in a church and the air felt so thick you could cut it with a knife and I walked in through the doors and everyone and everyting stopped and they selled up like a mob and chased me all the way down the street. I couldn't run fast enough. Then I woke up. I am soon going to do some past life regression I would like to return there eventually.
    Two Doves
     
  3. Stephan

    Stephan Senior Registered

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    The burnings were not only about non-believers. It was more often than not about the Church getting its hands on a woman's home and property if she were unmarried or widowed. It was about taking women's power away from them as midwives and healers, and putting the money they made into the hands of men, who took over the healing arts. Any woman who was independent, such as a widow, was quickly crushed. And not only did the Church get ownership of her property and money, but she also had to pay the fees for her judge, torturor, and executioner, as well as the wood beneath her feet. The mass murder of women and children, and the men who dared to try to protect them was not as much a religious genocide as it was a political one.

    Steph

    ------------------
    "Intolerance is the most socially acceptable form of egotism, for it permits us to assume superiority without personal boasting." --Sidney Harris
     
  4. Josefina

    Josefina Senior Registered

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    My loved one (soul quide I now have) was burned at stake in England. The point is, in England witches were hanged, not burned, says history. That is why I think she was some kind of heretic, not (just) a witch. I have wondered was she a jew (they were burned with their houses), or what? Or could there have been some descendant of cathars, who had managed to espace to England?

    Some say that some Templars went to Scotland after their order was put to end in France. Some think Templars had something to do with Cathars.

    Questions, questions...

    (I myself am a bit Pagan, but mostly I think myself an Esoterist (though it's too great name for me...)



    [This message has been edited by Josefina (edited 09-01-2002).]
     
  5. Midnight.Sapphires

    Midnight.Sapphires Senior Registered

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    I've had several regression sessions over the years and during one session, I told of a life in Italy in the mid to late 1200's.

    In that lifetime, I lived alone in the mountains and had knowledge of using herbs and plants to heal. To make a long story short, I was eventually falsely accused of killing my children and selling their souls to the devil. I was hunted down, dragged to the town square, tied to a stake, beaten and burned.

    The thing is, prior to that session, I had no idea that people who were accused of witchcraft were beaten first. I always believed that the victims were tied to the stake and burned alive.

    As I learned while researching the information I gave during my session, beating the victim to death was not a common practice in some parts of Europe, but in Italy, it was done.

    Jereldeen
     
  6. Jojolala

    Jojolala Senior Registered

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    Josefina,

    It could be possiable that this loved one of yours was burnt at the stake in England for being a Protestant. Many hundereds of Protestants were burnt at the stake during the reign of Mary I (1553-1558) as heretics.
    Hope that helps.

    Jo
     
  7. Josefina

    Josefina Senior Registered

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    Well, somehow I've always been thinking that happened around 1400.

    Anyway, me being a monk or most likely a novice it is quite odd that I remember walking and talking in forest at nights with a woman, what ever she was.

    But there are countless LITTLE stories history don't know. In fact, history knows very little...
     
  8. Gemeni

    Gemeni Senior Registered

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    Another of our 'charming' inventions over here was the ducking stool, which was used an awful lot in villages.
    The accused 'witch' was tied to the stool and held under the water. If she survived it prooved her guilty so she was then killed. The 'innocent' died anyway.
    I think for a while here in England just about anybody was likely to be considered a witch. Not good times to live in.
    Here's a link to details of the most hideous witch finder England ever had. The film 'Witch Finder General' was based on his story. http://www.edhouse.clara.net/films/hopkins6.html

    [This message has been edited by Gemeni (edited 09-01-2002).]
     
  9. Gemeni

    Gemeni Senior Registered

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    Hi Nettl, I've just returned with another link and found your post. My my, weren't they lovely people to come up with such things!!
    Actually my brother grew a sixth finger, so in those days he would have been killed. He had it removed, but wishes he'd kept it as he's a musician - a guitarist, so it would have been really useful!!!
    Anyway, here's a link to a list of witches killed and how. http://www.hulford.co.uk/trials.html
     
  10. Jerry Johnson

    Jerry Johnson Senior Registered

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    As an all inclusive total for Christian murder in the burning times forty million is probably close the mark.

    All told, Christian murder from all sources could exceed a hundred million if enough research were put into the project. The Crusades, the Albigensians and the religious wars alone could come to a hundred million.

    Christianity has always been the pimp of the ruling class in political domination. You really cannot separate politics and religion in European history. Everyone seems to want to give Christianity a break. Why? Christianity ,to me, is one long history of unmitigated evil. I had the misfortune to be born a Christian, but I overcame it. It is very difficult to get the Sunday School junk out of your psyche. Loyola put it best. "Give them to us for their first six years and we have them for life."

    Six million Jews died under Hitler. What was the total death under Hitler? Who knows, but the grand total had to exceed a hundred million or more. How many collateral deaths were there in the burning times? There had to be millions more.
    Children were dispossessed of their parents. Families were made destitute and treated as pariahs. Such people quickly die from disease , exposure and starvation. They burned Mum! That is a stigma that must have caused a lot of deaths. Peasants would see such people as they saw the Jews.

    Historically, Christian forgiveness doctrine has been used to remove ruling classes fear of retribution. The Lord of the manor kills your father. The Priest says Our Lord told us to forgive everyone, my son! The Lord has nothing happen to him!

    I wonder how often, the blade of an avenging son flashed in the night against a Priest? Probably few? Ignorance and diabolical induced fear worked very well.

    I too, had lives in the fourteenth through seventeenth centuries. I escaped the Burnings. I had an Italian,Scottish and English life. Burgher , Soldier, Aristocrat and Virginian.
     
  11. cacaia523

    cacaia523 Senior Registered

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    You know , the thing that most scares me is that in the future, perhaps, people might just regard the burning times as a myth, like someone here said earlier. Imagine how many historical events were probably truly there and regarded as myth now...I hope that the future generations will take the holocaust and the burning times to be true. We don't want history repeating itself...I am a pagan, and I know I was one in a past life. This I know because ever since I was a child, I "came up" with herb names and what they were used for, etc.I truly do not remember any lives in which I was burned or hanged as a witch, but I did live in MA, and upon visiting Salem, my heart sunk so fast upon learning that neighbor acused neighbor just to see if they could get more piece of land on their territories...um, but this escapes the subject, hehe...
    Not too long ago the group I've been worshiping with had a rememberance day for all the people that were accused of being witches and killed. I guess that's the best thing we can do now. Not repeat the past, but also never, never forget.
     
  12. kris0503

    kris0503 Senior Registered

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    Since there is some disagreement about the estimates of people killed during the Burning Times, I thought I would provide this link to a site that gives estimates of world population from -10000 to present time. Here it is: http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/worldhis.html

    Kris
     
  13. Jerry Johnson

    Jerry Johnson Senior Registered

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    Sexism and organized religion are mutually connected in the West. Sexism exists because of "Original Sin". But for religious doctrine, sexism would not be a major attitude problem. When you include Marianism in the equation the subject becomes insane. While western christendom was murdering women as witches, they were absolutely adoring the BVM in Catholic countries.

    Sexism arises from religions of the desert where tribal vendetta kills off males at hugely disproportionate rates. People died young in those times. It just proves the power of the priest if they control your immortality. If most adults were younger, sexually mature people, sexism even overcame healthy attraction. Another real dose of reality about sexism and doctrine is that men have no friends except women, especially at tribal levels. Even male friends are competitors for the companionship of women. This is true of most species. Yet, doctrine made men forsake even their natural hormonal system for the sake of their soul.

    I have always been mystified why human's buy such rathole arguments.
     
  14. gendenwitha

    gendenwitha Senior Registered

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    Another link to population stats, this one speciffically European: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470754658.fmatter/pdf

    The nine million figure always annoys me. From what I've read, no one is even sure where that number came from. More historical accounts read somewhere around 300,000. Perhaps someone said, this was X% of the European population, which someone else took as x% of the present popluation, I don't know. I read that criticisim first, along with some other interesting comments on the documentary "The Burning Times", in a book called "People of the Earth" which is a compilation of profiles of modern pagan people.

    I have a copy of that movie though, and although I never cry at movies (unless I'm pregnant lol) the part where they read a letter from a woman asking her husband for something for her to die so she doesn't "expire under torture" does make me cry. (But then again, so did the PBS special on the aid workers in Kabul trying to mend children our country bombed). I also nearly cry at the story of the women in Italy who joined hands and walked into the ocean to their death.

    This along with a dream I had, makes me think that in one life or more, weather or not it was associated with the Burning Times, I suspect it was, I killed myself to avoid torture. Maybe I was one of those women... I am afraid of the sea, and the dream did have to do with running towards my greatest fear to avoid something else that was worse.
     
  15. gendenwitha

    gendenwitha Senior Registered

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    Manea--

    I would like to know more about how you use hypnotism in the pagan community. I have a natural talent for hypnotizing people, and it has come in handy in magical use, but I am scared to use it, as I have never been really trained in it.
     
  16. Manea

    Manea Senior Registered

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    gendenwitha,

    First I think we need to establish what it means to hypnotise to you and to me. As a certified hypnotherapist, I learned thet the definition of the state of hypnosis is relaxed, focused, attention. This is what all good storytellers know. You use good oration, details for the imagination to hold on to so that they see another image rather than what their physical eyes see, go further into details and it raises energy, includes physical sensations... what the mind sees thee body will follow.

    Is this what you mean?

    Namasté

    Manea
     
  17. loveandtruth

    loveandtruth New Member

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    I was one of the accused witches (Bridget Bishop) hung in Salem. I started having flashbacks of the hanging during a shaman journey retreat in February of 2001. The same weekend I had a past life regression where the details of her and her house were shown to me. I have also had many dreams and done meditations on this. In 1992 when a memorial was done for the people who hung in Salem I started healing for abuse from my childhood in this incarnation.
    Maureen
     
  18. tltfaas

    tltfaas New Member

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    The Burning Times

    I find this subject fascinating. I was hung for being a witch during an epidemic in Europe in the 1600's. The irony is that I was a midwife/healer with great skills and although I couldn't save my husband I was able to save my two small children.

    My mother-in-law was my accuser because we had never gotten along and she wanted to take my children away from me. She accused me of deliberately exposing my husband to the plague but not my children. My mother-in-law in that life is my mother in this life and she and I still hate each other and when my only child was born she threatened to take him away from me even though I was 26 and more than capable of taking care of him myself!

    In my past life my mother-in-law was successful... I was tortured and hung as a witch and my mother-in-law raised my children.

    I guess I haven't forgiven her even now!

    Bonnie
     
  19. Ailish

    Ailish Administrator Emerita

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    I am curious if anyone else has memories of this time? It's really not something that one hears a lot about.

    I have memories of being a young girl in Kilkenny, Ireland in the 1600's. My name was Sarah Roberts. I have very vivid memories of running through a forest and going into hiding -- with my mother.

    A group of men came to the cottage where we were hiding -- among them were my father and brother. They had accused my mother, Susannah, of witchcraft.

    They took her from the cottage directly to the river. There was no "trial" ~ but they performed what is called a "floating test" on her. I watched from the riverbank -- as my father held me back, whispering to me "See what happens to women who don't obey, Sarah."

    I am lucky -- in that many of my memories have been validated by a dear friend of mine -- who remembers being Susannah. ;)

    Ailish
     
  20. Athlynne

    Athlynne Senior Registered

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    I have strong feelings of anger toward the people who persecuted witches during the Burning Times, and in this life, as a Celtic Pagan, I really have to hold back the old anger in order to remain objective and polite toward people who remain fearful and ignorant. I sometimes wonder if my dreams of being chased have anything to do with these deep-seated feelings...
     

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