Have you ever heard of the "Mandela Effect?"
- Thread starter Jody
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SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi Jody,
I have heard of the Mandela Effect, but have come to no definite conclusion (though it seems like one of those things with a very low probability to me). However, I definitely can't dismiss what is going on in the article cited. I tend to think that there may be a more prosaic explanation out there than the Mandela Effect. Perhaps there is a legal tangle behind the whole thing, though it would be pretty remarkable for there to be no copy of this old video somewhere if it exists. Other than that one possibility . . . .
Cordially,
S&S
I have heard of the Mandela Effect, but have come to no definite conclusion (though it seems like one of those things with a very low probability to me). However, I definitely can't dismiss what is going on in the article cited. I tend to think that there may be a more prosaic explanation out there than the Mandela Effect. Perhaps there is a legal tangle behind the whole thing, though it would be pretty remarkable for there to be no copy of this old video somewhere if it exists. Other than that one possibility . . . .
Cordially,
S&S
Jody
Senior Registered
Cryscat: I've studied many proposed examples of the "Mandela Effect" (which got its name from the hundreds of people who independently believed Nelson Mandela died in prison and were surprised he died a free man after becoming president of South Africa). I think some proposed examples could be simple false memories, but some are more troubling. For example, there's a whole website dedicated to people who are really good spellers who totally remember "dilemma" being spelled as "dilemna" even though its not pronounced that way. The same is true for "Berenstein Bears." I remember it being pronounced as "Berenstain" but being spelled "Berenstein" making it a special case. Why would I remember these special cases along with thousands of other people? There's a mystery here! Anyway, here are a few more examples:
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Cryscat
Senior Member
It is interesting, and some cases are hard to figure out. I was referring to what was in the first post though. As for dilemma vs dilemna, I too, was taught to spell it dilemna and was surprised to find that it really is spelled dilemma. As to the cause of this, the aberrant dilemna is almost certainly a hypercorrection; if common words like solemn, hymn, or autumn have a silent n, then surely this Greek philosophical term would as well. Like pluralizing octopus as octopi, saying between you and I, or pronouncing habanero with an ñ, the spelling is then perpetuated by well-meaning but mis-remembering teachers, editors, and so on. Its is , now, listed as a
variant spelling. ((shrug))
Let me think about the " Berenstain but being spelled Berenstein" thing. I am pretty sure there is a regional pronunciation variant as the source there. Its another interesting puzzle as I have always pronounced it "stein" and not "stain."
Stuff like "stain vs stein" really shouldn't be a mystery. Spoken language is very flexible. I do remember that the northeast tends to flip the long e into an a, so that may be the source. Also if you say "berenstein" a number of time, you can flip "e "into "a" easily. Might be a possible "Great Vowl shift #2" in process and freaking a number of people out.
variant spelling. ((shrug))
Let me think about the " Berenstain but being spelled Berenstein" thing. I am pretty sure there is a regional pronunciation variant as the source there. Its another interesting puzzle as I have always pronounced it "stein" and not "stain."
Stuff like "stain vs stein" really shouldn't be a mystery. Spoken language is very flexible. I do remember that the northeast tends to flip the long e into an a, so that may be the source. Also if you say "berenstein" a number of time, you can flip "e "into "a" easily. Might be a possible "Great Vowl shift #2" in process and freaking a number of people out.
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SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi Cryscat,
I think your point is well taken regarding most of the items cited. Actually, I find the movie example the thread began with the most interesting, and hardest to explain. A local aberration in spelling or teaching spelling, false impressions about the way something is spelled or pronounced based on past (internalized) ideas about the way it should be spelled, etc. are adequate explanations for most of these. Likewise, in terms of Mandela, I seem to remember articles predicting his death in prison, so I can imagine that many would have internalized that as a fact just from the articles. So, that type of thing doesn't add up to much to me. But the example given re "Shazaam", and the number of people who independently remember this non-existent movie, as well as (apparently) independently remembering the nature of its alleged case, star, plot, characters, etc., just seems a bit too much to fall within the usual ambit of human error, false impressions, mistake and etc.
It is just a bit weird. Its like a slight glitch in the woven fabric of reality, a bit like some interfering deity made a clumsy job of pruning something from existence, leaving a lot of loose ends dangling . . . .
Cordially,
S&S
PS--Actually, the whole thing makes me think of the kind of thing one used to see on the "Twilight Zone". I can almost hear Rod Serling narrating in the background.
I think your point is well taken regarding most of the items cited. Actually, I find the movie example the thread began with the most interesting, and hardest to explain. A local aberration in spelling or teaching spelling, false impressions about the way something is spelled or pronounced based on past (internalized) ideas about the way it should be spelled, etc. are adequate explanations for most of these. Likewise, in terms of Mandela, I seem to remember articles predicting his death in prison, so I can imagine that many would have internalized that as a fact just from the articles. So, that type of thing doesn't add up to much to me. But the example given re "Shazaam", and the number of people who independently remember this non-existent movie, as well as (apparently) independently remembering the nature of its alleged case, star, plot, characters, etc., just seems a bit too much to fall within the usual ambit of human error, false impressions, mistake and etc.
It is just a bit weird. Its like a slight glitch in the woven fabric of reality, a bit like some interfering deity made a clumsy job of pruning something from existence, leaving a lot of loose ends dangling . . . .
Cordially,
S&S
PS--Actually, the whole thing makes me think of the kind of thing one used to see on the "Twilight Zone". I can almost hear Rod Serling narrating in the background.
Read a little bit for the first time glace. I will read it whole later.
Cryscat
Senior Member
McMahon did the Jerry Lewis Telethon... maybe some people are crossing that with Publisher's Clearing House, somehow.
Is this Mandela effect an American problem?
I mean, it is commonly known that he became president of South Africa (for many years), and this thing with American movies and series and movie stars... means nothing to me as a European
I mean, it is commonly known that he became president of South Africa (for many years), and this thing with American movies and series and movie stars... means nothing to me as a European
Jody
Senior Registered
fireflydancing: according to this website (dedicated to the seemingly new spelling of "dilemma") "From the hundreds of comments received here it seems that the Dilemna with an 'N' spelling spreads across many generations from 15 to 90+ year olds and right across the world - every English speaking nation seems affected!
This site alone attracts visitors from over 50 different countries. "
This site alone attracts visitors from over 50 different countries. "
Chrislider
Member
Hi Thread
I still spell "dilemna" , and it is the first i have heard of it being spelt different.
There are theories that the internet is changing history.
I have purchased 2 old sets of encyclopedias to have a Hard Copy of the worlds history.
If the Mandela Effect is true, my friends say it will change in my hard copies to, . . . . light bulb moment, i will check the encyclopedias for dilemna, brb
. . . hmmmmm . . . . . 1959, spelt "Dilemma", . . . . 1988, spelt "Dilemma"
TBH, i didn't expect that, sooooooooo, is it the Mandala Effect
@fireflydancing , great find on the 'dilemma' website.
As with all strange occurrences, it is always comforting to know it is "not just me" and there are others who believe.
christopher
I still spell "dilemna" , and it is the first i have heard of it being spelt different.
There are theories that the internet is changing history.
I have purchased 2 old sets of encyclopedias to have a Hard Copy of the worlds history.
If the Mandela Effect is true, my friends say it will change in my hard copies to, . . . . light bulb moment, i will check the encyclopedias for dilemna, brb
. . . hmmmmm . . . . . 1959, spelt "Dilemma", . . . . 1988, spelt "Dilemma"
TBH, i didn't expect that, sooooooooo, is it the Mandala Effect
@fireflydancing , great find on the 'dilemma' website.
As with all strange occurrences, it is always comforting to know it is "not just me" and there are others who believe.
christopher
Well, it wasn't me about the website about the word dilemma, but I still think it's a cultural thing. In my language, we also use the word dilemma and we don't mix it the wrong way.
I don't believe in it honestly. The biggest cited thing about the effect is the covers of the Bernstain bears. There were actually several independent publishers who published the book as Bernstein, believing it to be a misspelling.
I think it's a common "effect" of its own to associate unfamiliar words, incorrectly, with familiar ones. My favorite instance is the fantasy rock band camp episode of the Simpsons.
Homer: Mr Seltzer!
Brian Setzer: It's Setzer.
Homer: no, I believe it's pronounced Seltzer.
Brian Setzer: I know my own name Homer!!
I found it hilarious because I was also one of those people that heard "seltzer".
A new "effect" everyone is citing is also the black tom attack on the statue of liberty. I visited the statue back in the 80's and 90's a couple times and we were always told the torch was closed due to a fire. Now, anyone can google black tom and read that it was closed due to damage from a German attack. A little more googling shows that this wasn't common knowledge until the 100th anniversary of the attack.
My guess? The investigation during the war was classified and it was unclassified years later, to little fan fare. The 100th anniversary hit and it re entered the public consciousness. I didn't even hear about it myself, until I saw a post on facebook about the effect. I personally don't put much faith into it myself.
I think it's a common "effect" of its own to associate unfamiliar words, incorrectly, with familiar ones. My favorite instance is the fantasy rock band camp episode of the Simpsons.
Homer: Mr Seltzer!
Brian Setzer: It's Setzer.
Homer: no, I believe it's pronounced Seltzer.
Brian Setzer: I know my own name Homer!!
I found it hilarious because I was also one of those people that heard "seltzer".
A new "effect" everyone is citing is also the black tom attack on the statue of liberty. I visited the statue back in the 80's and 90's a couple times and we were always told the torch was closed due to a fire. Now, anyone can google black tom and read that it was closed due to damage from a German attack. A little more googling shows that this wasn't common knowledge until the 100th anniversary of the attack.
My guess? The investigation during the war was classified and it was unclassified years later, to little fan fare. The 100th anniversary hit and it re entered the public consciousness. I didn't even hear about it myself, until I saw a post on facebook about the effect. I personally don't put much faith into it myself.
Chrislider
Member
Hi fireflydancing
I read and re-read your reply, then it sunk in,
the reference to the website is the earlier post below yours, hence my confusion as to where the individual posts start and stop, ooops, sorry
christopher
Jody
Senior Registered
I started this thread and since then I've written quite a bit on it. The most recent "discovery" I've encountered is how many people whose names I thought were "Gary" are actually "Garry" ... Garry Trudeau, Garry Kasparov, Garry Marshal, Garry Shandling ...
Here's what I wrote on the Mandela Effect on my website: https://jpaulson.blogspot.com/search?q=mandela+effect
Here's what I wrote on the Mandela Effect on my website: https://jpaulson.blogspot.com/search?q=mandela+effect
I experienced this once in a video game when I was about 6. The first time I played it, very early in the game there was a dialogue option that involved a yes/no choice. The second time I started a new game a few years later, it wasn't there anymore, and I wondered what happened to it. Turns out some other players had the exact same experience and a thread appeared on the game's discussion board about it, a dialogue option that only existed in the first playthrough. They described it exactly as I saw it. This thread ended unresolved, because many players never saw the dialogue option in the first place, but the subject never really faded away until someone hacked the code to look for it and found that this dialogue option was never in the game at all. I know I'm remembering correctly, it is my favorite game of all time and I'd never forget the first time I picked it up, and I never had any other idea about that dialogue sequence until I replayed the game, so I have no explanation for this except Mandela effect. It definitely used to be there in some version of reality.
My last tribute to this subject. I think it's impossible to call me a skeptic as my life contains the weirdest experiences (much more than I've ever written down in this forum) but although I am not a skeptic, I don't lack brain cells and at least some common sense. This whole 'Mandela effect' is in my opinion B.S. and I really don't understand why so many people even consider to take it seriously. It's composed by shared ignorance, shared stupidity, shared cultural biases, shared dyslexia, shared cultural mistakes... and so on...
The English speaking nations consist of millions and millions of people, easy to find a few hundred (even thousands) who make the same mistake in spelling or thinking or remembering.
By the way, it was Steve Biko who died in prison, not Nelson Mandela. Which might mean
- lack of good quality journalism in some countries
- no real interest in international news by people and just mixing names and blame it on parallel universes
- people just love to create stories and don't care about logical explanations
the hundreds of people who independently believed Nelson Mandela died in prison
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Biko
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Jaimie
Senior Member
I'm just thinking this and hope I don't offend anyone. I think all those names that we think spell differently is because of a fault in our human brain, so to speak, that is all. it is no mystery. if it was about alternative parallel universe, that fate has changed into 2 different realities (which I think is the aim idea of the Mandela effect?? But I could be wrong??) then I don't think it would have to do with any errors in spelling.
landsend
Senior Registered
I've heard folks talk about this before, and think the most simple answer is probably the correct one. Human error. It reminds me of when I was a kid and eating a chocolate bar (candy for Americans) and then one moment later it was gone from my hand, not on the sofa, no where to be seen. Little me thought someone had stolen it, or it had disappeared into space and time. Most simple explanation is I was enjoying it so much that I didn't realise I'd finished it and wanted another.
I also thought it was spelt 'Dilemna' but then I'm mildly dyslexic so don't ask me, I can spell the same word different in any body of text.
I also thought it was spelt 'Dilemna' but then I'm mildly dyslexic so don't ask me, I can spell the same word different in any body of text.
Stewardess Ester Ősz
Probationary
I had an experience with the Mandela effect over a year ago on a short holyday day trip with a friend of mine. We stated talking about cold war history, and how the cold war ended during the 80's, as Reagan and Gorbachev came to the power on each side of the cold war. We were both lifting up Gorbachev, who we both thought had been doing an exelent job to end the dictatorship in the Soviet Union, despite of the strong forces in his party being against him. And we also talked about how we both were sad because Gorbachev had passed away some years ago. We both remembered very well his death being announced on national news. That they said he had passed very silently and quickly in his home after a short time of illness, and that he didnt want to meet any friends of his nor any journalists, since a few mounts before passing.
Then some days later, when I was back home, I read about Gorbachev on the Wikipedia that he is not dead at all but very much alive. I dont have to say I was very surprised by that, remembering his death announced on the news so clearly. I imediatly phoned my friend from my holyday, to tell her about this. And she was also very confused and surprised, as she remembered the news of his death just the same way as I.
Then some days later, when I was back home, I read about Gorbachev on the Wikipedia that he is not dead at all but very much alive. I dont have to say I was very surprised by that, remembering his death announced on the news so clearly. I imediatly phoned my friend from my holyday, to tell her about this. And she was also very confused and surprised, as she remembered the news of his death just the same way as I.
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Personally I put it down to human error. I can think of lots of minor examples of people I know who go through their entire lives mispronouncing certain words, and though I never see how they spell those words, it is likely they would spell it as they speak.
I think when we encounter words in print, we can easily skip by these discrepancies, it is only when we are first learning to read that we focus on each individual letter, after a while we see the group of letters together and just see that as a word.
There is also this, we really don't care much about order of letters.
https://www.sciencealert.com/word-jumble-meme-first-last-letters-cambridge-typoglycaemia
I know from my own experience that I'm prone to errors, sometimes comparing memories with family members when reminiscing, there are often discrepancies, or simply blanks, each person recalls particular details which are outside the awareness of another.
This takes us to a different but related area. Interviewing witnesses to some crime or incident. The accounts given by several people may contain significant differences, even contradictions. It doesn't seem feasible that the event really did occur differently for each person, much more probable that witness testimony is unreliable. This has relevance in the legal system, where even the most honest and sincere witness may give an erroneous description of what occurred.
I think when we encounter words in print, we can easily skip by these discrepancies, it is only when we are first learning to read that we focus on each individual letter, after a while we see the group of letters together and just see that as a word.
There is also this, we really don't care much about order of letters.
https://www.sciencealert.com/word-jumble-meme-first-last-letters-cambridge-typoglycaemia
I know from my own experience that I'm prone to errors, sometimes comparing memories with family members when reminiscing, there are often discrepancies, or simply blanks, each person recalls particular details which are outside the awareness of another.
This takes us to a different but related area. Interviewing witnesses to some crime or incident. The accounts given by several people may contain significant differences, even contradictions. It doesn't seem feasible that the event really did occur differently for each person, much more probable that witness testimony is unreliable. This has relevance in the legal system, where even the most honest and sincere witness may give an erroneous description of what occurred.
I've never heard of this and find it very interesting! Most of the things are, I believe, just human error...(but, Ed McMahon didn't do anything with Publisher's Clearinghouse? Seriously?? I don't remember him carrying big checks and champagne to a lucky winner's door, but I can hear him saying the phrase 'Publisher's Clearinghouse' and being their spokesman plain as day in my head. Curious.)
I had something like this happen at our house just about a month ago. My wife and I were watching Finding Neverland, which I thought I had seen before and disliked. Afterwards, I realized I was getting this movie confused with another one we had watched about Louis Carroll some years ago in Argentina. I had made a few comments about getting these movies confused, and my wife finally turned to me and asked what the heck I was talking about...we had NEVER watched a movie about Carroll. I thought she was mistaken, and I told her about specific scenes, where we had watched it, etc. Turns out this never happened and that this movie does not exist. We couldn't even find a similar documentary.
Later, during that same week in fact, I brought up a Nazi documentary with a very specific name that had just come out. After trying to find it to show someone, I was never able to find it again on the same site and had also disappeared completely when Googling it.
Idk what was up with me that week!
I had something like this happen at our house just about a month ago. My wife and I were watching Finding Neverland, which I thought I had seen before and disliked. Afterwards, I realized I was getting this movie confused with another one we had watched about Louis Carroll some years ago in Argentina. I had made a few comments about getting these movies confused, and my wife finally turned to me and asked what the heck I was talking about...we had NEVER watched a movie about Carroll. I thought she was mistaken, and I told her about specific scenes, where we had watched it, etc. Turns out this never happened and that this movie does not exist. We couldn't even find a similar documentary.
Later, during that same week in fact, I brought up a Nazi documentary with a very specific name that had just come out. After trying to find it to show someone, I was never able to find it again on the same site and had also disappeared completely when Googling it.
Idk what was up with me that week!
Cryscat
Senior Member
Here is a question that I always ask now:
Why is it that all of the "Mandela effect" memories tend to involve people NOT OF that culture, country, business or area of interest?
I happen to have some online friends from all over the world, and so far, I have found the following to be true: NONE of my friends in South Africa remember Mandela dying in prison. NONE of my friends in China remember the tank man being run over. NONE of my Australian friends think that New Zealand is on a different place on the map.
NONE of my friends who are obsessed about cinema and film think that the title of the Anne Rice Film was "Interview with A Vampire"
Now why do you think this is? Do you see a pattern here? Could it be that those who are most prone to misremember are those who are more far-removed from the topic in question?
Why is it that all of the "Mandela effect" memories tend to involve people NOT OF that culture, country, business or area of interest?
I happen to have some online friends from all over the world, and so far, I have found the following to be true: NONE of my friends in South Africa remember Mandela dying in prison. NONE of my friends in China remember the tank man being run over. NONE of my Australian friends think that New Zealand is on a different place on the map.
NONE of my friends who are obsessed about cinema and film think that the title of the Anne Rice Film was "Interview with A Vampire"
Now why do you think this is? Do you see a pattern here? Could it be that those who are most prone to misremember are those who are more far-removed from the topic in question?
A fair question.
Sometimes I find things frustrating. For example I have ancestry in a non-English-speaking country. I've openly stated this to my friends a number of times over the years, and named the specific country. Yet I can be pretty sure that many of them if asked would get the name of that country wrong. One of them even highlighted (as a favour to me) some festival of traditions from some other unrelated country - because he sincerely believed that was my ancestry.
What I've learned from this is that even after giving the correct information, repeatedly, over a period of years, people will still have in their own minds something quite different. But it does share the idea that the subject under consideration is somewhere distant or unfamiliar, not something encountered all day, every day.
I think that it is possible that the Mandela effect is an example of the healing hand of God. Even the Bible has quite a bunch of verses that people remember differently yet when they look it up it is different. For example a common memory is that after the Last Supper when Jesus was praying, he told his disciples to sleep now because of the long day of crucifixion ahead. But every printed version of the Bible says that Jesus told off the disciples for falling asleep.
The real way of healing damages is only to replace the relevant time frames. After God has completed that, the material reality and people's memories would mismatch, I think.
There is also a relocated tree in Swizerland which nobody has seen but it is in every photo.
The real way of healing damages is only to replace the relevant time frames. After God has completed that, the material reality and people's memories would mismatch, I think.
There is also a relocated tree in Swizerland which nobody has seen but it is in every photo.