How "old" is the Spirutal/Astral "world"8

Discussion in 'SCIENTIFIC and ANECDOTAL research' started by Native Son, Aug 2, 2017.

  1. Native Son

    Native Son Senior Member

    Jul 17, 2017
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    The number 8 can be looked upon as a symbol for infinity. Time, whether linear and also progressive in one direction, is argued by the majority to be non-existent in the spiritual world, and infinite in the physical world. Therefore how is age determined in the Astral World? I mean to ask about those arguments that state that there are old and new souls, and that the souls come Down to the physical world to learn and age in experience and knowledge. How is "age" determined up in those neck of the woods?

    And is there a spacial environment up There? I mean SPEED. Down here speed is a relationship between distance and time.

    Another thing is this concept that the souls come Down to the physical world to learn/progress in various areas and subjects. Why cannot the souls obtain this in the Astral World? What do the expert spiritualists or those that state to have visited the Astral World say about this?

    Some claim that we were never created and have always existed. OK, but if that is so, does not this admittance of having always existed present a difficulty when the same proponents are convinced that we are here to learn/experience things? If we could imagine how time relates to having always existed, it would be comparing that one single drop of water in an infinite ocean, where the whole of time is the drop of water, and always existing is the infinite ocean. And considering all that we can learn/experience in a single average human life span of say, 80 years, what is there to learn/experience that the soul has not already done so zillion and zillion upon zillion of times?
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
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  2. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Emeritus

    Aug 21, 2014
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    SW Ohio, USA
    I have no solutions to those questions, only my own thoughts about them.

    Time is a question that seems central to all sections of your post, and one that has perplexed me as well. The answer that my right-brain tells me involves the Idea of perspective somehow. Substituting movement for time, it is like the tire on an automobile where you pick one spot on the tread and first think of it in regard to the vehicle and the ground it is traveling on. Let’s say the vehicle is moving at a-mile-a-minute, from the perspective of the vehicle the “spot” just moves in circles, but from the perspective of the ground, the “spot” varies from having no movement (when touching the ground) to going twice as fast as the vehicle when it is furthest from the ground. Add one more perspective, the one that none of us here are able to define, and the perspective is the “spot” itself and everything else may be spinning around it and there is no “forward” or “backward” movement.

    Andy Weir wrote something that set my mind on a pleasant journey of thought that might interest you.

    IMO there are things that can only be experienced in the physical (a parent with dementia, inability to communicate, dealing with personal illness/disability, relationships, parenting, pain, etc.) that might be necessary for understanding. And, as for repeating things until they are completely understood, it must be a little more complicated than we think to truly "Get it".
  3. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

    Sep 21, 2006
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    Good questions and questions that many have pondered.

    We use terms like 'up' and 'down' and 'old' and 'young' for want of better words, but in the 'other world' these terms don't really have much meaning. In an existence without time and space, there is no use for words like these. They are nonsensical.

    A lot of people say we come here to learn. But do we? Maybe we come just to have experiences? To feel sensations? To feel emotions? For a holiday from eternity? I don't really know the answers to all this. I can only guess.

    But, why do we sleep? To rest. Of course. All animals and even plants sleep in one way or another. You'd think there would be a evolutionary advantage in never sleeping. Always being on the alert, never being vulnerable and needing a safe place to hole up. But yet, after millions upon millions of years, no animal has ever evolved that never needs to sleep. Not even sharks. Makes you wonder why doesn't it? Makes me wonder at least.

    We need to sleep to rest and repair our bodies. OK. But why dream? Dreams are obviously more than just random memory storage as many people think. There must be something more going on. In dreams we can do all kind of impossible things. We can fly, we can die, we can get hurt without consequences. We wake up the next day good as new.

    I personally think life is a little like a dream. A 'holiday' or a rest from the other reality. Just as we must sleep as a rest from this reality. We are mysterious in many ways that people have as yet really got no idea about - excluding of course many shamans and possessors of ancient wisdom that most 'westeners' dismiss as hocus pocus of course.
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
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  4. Jim78

    Jim78 Probationary

    Nov 18, 2017
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    My experiences tell my that dreams are an aspect of our true realities and that "life is but a dream". Just my two cents.
  5. Polaris8

    Polaris8 Senior Registered

    Feb 22, 2019
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    San Francisco
    Native son, I will try to explain this as best as I can. From my understanding and experience the soul (which is the eternal real you) has always existed. It is eternal as it is a spark of consciousness from god itself. Therefore like god it can't be destroyed. It can however change in form and in awareness which is why the lower worlds of duality where created in the first place.

    From the mental plane on downward is much like a very large school of sorts for soul to gain spiritual awareness, maturity and growth. The lower worlds of duality are a mix of both spirit and matter. The physical world is the lowest expression and dimension where soul can exist where more matter exist then spirit. The astral and mental planes are where psychic phenomena occurs as these dimensions have more spirit and less matter in them. These higher dimensions are where emotional and mental awareness occurs and where the soul can and does shape and mold it's reality much quicker in responds to the mind. However the physical, astral and mental planes are subject to cycles of creation and destruction as karma is also created in these worlds just like the physical.

    So these lower dimensions which are below the soul or causal plane go thru cycles of creation and destruction. This will last for the duration of creation itself which on a human time scale can span into trillions of years. However when these worlds come to an end they are destroyed and those souls that have not reached enlightenment yet will be taken up into the soul plane where they will be put into a cosmic sleep for same period of time as creation itself. During this time the lower worlds will be in a state of cosmic blackness of nothing as all the stars and matter in them have been used up. Science calls this the big freeze. This state of the lower worlds will last the same period of time as creation. Then another big bang will occur creating all the dimensions from the inside out and come into existences once again. Then those soul that where in cosmic sleep will be placed back into the lower worlds of duality and pick up where they left off the last cosmic cycle.

    Only on the soul/causal plane which is above the mental plane is where pure spirit exist. There is no time there and it is above the laws of karma and duality. These higher god worlds are eternal by nature and is the natural home of the soul. And this is where all souls are striving to return to once again once they have received their full spiritual education within the lower worlds of duality, time, space and matter.

    Hope this helps some.

    Love and peace....

    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
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  6. Oscar FRYE

    Oscar FRYE Active Member

    Apr 28, 2021
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    Southern France
    Hi P; great job explaining your understanding, much appreciated, I can see your time invested in these subjects.

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