Karmic Lessons

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by Modaki, Mar 29, 2006.

  1. Modaki

    Modaki New Member

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    For my entire life, I've had the closest people to me just leave. It gets lonely and depressing sometimes. :(

    For instance, every time I make a new best friend; they seem to move away or go to another school.

    case 1. I was 4 years old and I met my best friend of all time, Jeremy. When I turned about 8, he had to move to Italy. (his dad was military, and he is now in Germany.) I am now going to be 15 in about 10 days and I have only seen him once or twice since he has moved away. However, I do still keep in touch by e-mail, but that was just recently. He is still one of my best friends despide the huge difference in where we live, but it isn't the same if you can't actually talk face to face with your a best friend.

    case 2. In 5th grade we were leaving elementary school. My newer good friend, Jocelyn, was going to a different school then me. I've only seen her once since. I am now half way through my first year of high school, and I still miss her friendship.

    case 3. In 7th grade I met yet another good friend of mine, Beenish Ahmed, after 7th grade she had to move to Missouri...which isn't that far from where I live, but it is a bit too far to drive. I have talked over the phone to her a couple of times, but I haven't seen her face to face since she left

    case 4. In 8th grade my mom and dad got devorced. Other than that, I had made countless new friends. I finally felt I was going to be surrounded by the friends I always wanted. Noel, Emily, Ivan, Evan, Alex, Josh, and others. Then, BOOM, we had to switch schools again. Every single one of them went to another school. I still talk to Noel and Josh a little bit.

    As of now: Back in August, my grandfather died. That is what got me into the idea of reincarnation. Me and him were very close. It was almost like I lost my dad, because I was so much closer to my grandfather than my actual father. We got along great, and then, wham....he had a sudden and unexpected death. There was even more of a feeling of lonliness and abandonment. Also, now that I am at my new high school, I still don't have a best friend that I just love being around. I mean, I've always had friends but every time I make a close one, something happens. Now one of my closer friends is talking about getting homeschool.

    So the cycle continues.
    My question is: Is it possible I could be repaying for something? If so, what kinds of things could it be? I don't know. I can't say I've had any PL memories. :( I wish I did though.
    Also, I hope this post isn't stupid. xP

    EDIT: Also, let me add that I have no brothers and sister either. (i do have a dog.)
     
  2. vicky

    vicky Senior Member

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    Modaki,
    I don't know what to say except that I don't think that this is karmic debt, maybe a lesson that you are supposed to learn though. There are many people that come in and out of our lives. Some we will meet again on the road of life.
    As you are still in high school, there are more transitions in your life and much of your life and your friend's lives are not up to you but to the parents, school system etc. When you settle down in your life, you will lose fewer friends and there will be more permanency.
    Try looking at all of the positives. For example, if you had the same group of a few friends since you were 4, you may never have met some of the people that became your good friends later.
    Good luck to you.
    Vicky
     
  3. Ailish

    Ailish Administrator Emerita

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    Hi Modaki :D

    I switched schools almost every year growing up, so I can understand how it feels to not have some people permanently in your life (even though I was the one leaving in my case ;) ) Even my closest friends from school have grown apart from me as we've each gone on to separate career paths, etc. That happens to everyone, I think.

    I agree with Vicky, that once you settle down, friendships become more permanent and stable. I have a whole different network of friends now, some who live close by and some who are far away, but near in heart. A true friend doesn't have to be right next to you to be part of your life (although it IS great to be together face-to-face, and nothing beats a *real* hug ;) )

    I also believe that this is not a karmic debt, but rather a lesson for you to learn. As Vicky said...look for the positive things about it...like all of the people you've met that you wouldn't have had the opportunity to get to know...and just think of all of the people you will get to know in the future!

    Mainly, don't despair. That one true friend you are looking for will come along. Remember to keep your heart open...you've been hurt and may be a little afraid of letting someone close to you again, for fear of them leaving. People can sense that and may be unconsciously picking up on some of your thoughts. Be welcoming and friendly...just be yourself. You seem like a pretty special person to me. ;)

    Ailish:)
     
  4. Fliesatnite

    Fliesatnite New Member

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    Modaki,

    Your story sound just like my youngest daughters, every friend she has ends up moving away and she continually ends up with an overwhelming sense of loss. Understandably.

    Here's what I told her and I hope it fits for you as well. She is an amazing person (she's 12 by the way), she gives her heart to all of her friends each and every time, and then they end up moving... but they take a very special part of her with them. This is her GIFT. Not a curse and not karmic payback. With each friend that moves away they take a great memory of the times they spent together. This lasts a lifetime. Friends of the heart are forever. Moving is not, it's only a location. What you give to your friends is your heart and your blessing and your gift of friendship. Don't look at it as though you are losing someone, turn it around and see what you are giving them, a huge piece of yourself that can never be taken (or moved) away.

    Some day when you get older you have the opportunity to find these friends again and continue your friendships, again... it's only a location, not a loss.

    I hope this helps.
    Fliesatnite
     
  5. jackh

    jackh Senior Registered

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    Modaki,
    It's been awhile since I was 15. My dad got transferred about every 3 years. I didn't mind until I was in high school. We moved again while in my junior year. It was tough. I learned a few things a year later when I went back for a visit. I had grown and changed and had an idea of where I was going. The folks I knew hadn't for the most part. That was an eye opener for me and it took a long time to understand why. The simple answer is that when your life is driven by goals you set before you come to this world, God and/or spirit is going to drive your life in ways that you won't always understand but you did agree to before we come down to this world. Religion doesn't always play a big role.

    Another thing I picked up on was that quite often the people (souls) we come in contact with are those we have known before in previous lives and indeed we may know them very very well. Those folks I consider to be a temporary mutual support society. And thank god for them.

    Here are 2 brief stories of my own. When I was 12-13 there was a younger girl who lived behind us. she had 5 or 6 sibs. but the 2 of us had we been old enough would had been a long term couple on campus and maybe even gotten married. They moved to Penn. and I have no idea what happened after that.

    The other is a really strange one. Race relations in the military back in the 70's weren't the greatest. I'm white. While stationed in Germany I saw a black girl who lived in the woman's barracks at the hospital I was stationed at. It was like a magnet pulled us together. We gave each other a hug and went on. In the 2 years we were there neither one of us knew the others name, But every day we would see each other after work and give each other a hug and go on. Her friends thought we were very strange but we didn't care.

    Do what you can, let go and look for the next, they are all around and one or more will be there when we need them.

    Jack
     
  6. Phoenix

    Phoenix Forgot to play nice

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    Very good words, Fliesatnite.

    It's too easy to look at what we don't like in our current incarnation and blame karma from a prior incarnation for these things.

    Phoenix
     
  7. Susie

    Susie Dreamer-former moderator

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    (((((Modaki)))))). I can remember being 14 and feeling exactly the same way- and I will bet if you were talk to many of your friends, they would feel the same way!! People come and go in our lives. It is not karma- you did not do anything to "make" these people leave in any way. It is just a fact of life.

    However, back to the subject of reincarnation and your grandfather- do you feel that you and he shared a life together? Perhaps in this case your feelings of loss are tied into a past life connection.
     
  8. Cloggie777

    Cloggie777 Senior Registered

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    How do you break free from karma?

    Have been reading some of the "Dalai Lama's Book of Awakening". He says that there are virtuous and non-virtuous actions, and that we should avoid the non-virtuous (negative) ones. This is easier said than done- I am guilty of losing my temper, being nasty to someone, etc, when I feel that they have hurt me in some way. He also says that "thoughts" contribute to a karmic action- if there is a strong motivation to do something, this enforces the karma of whatever is done. One thing I have sometimes done is got angry with someone and regretted it afterwards. The reason I am interested in this subject at the moment is that I (in my opinion) have suffered a lot so far in my life, both physically and psychologically, and some events lately have made me think "why me?" So does this mean that if I never get upset with anyone, and forgive everyone for anything they do to me, then I won't suffer so much in my next life? I think I mentioned "accelerated karma" ages ago on the forum, I wonder if this is what I've been going through.
     
  9. Athlynne

    Athlynne Senior Registered

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    Hi, Cloggie! I like your name, it's adorable.

    I think I get your frustration. I really like the Dalai Lama's books, but lately I've avoided them because they get me frustrated with myself and my inability to be happy and Buddha-like and not hold any grudges. Sometimes I fling up my hands and say that obviously such advice is not meant for a depressed person who can't just snap out of it and be happy for no reason.

    My dad (who is the most Buddha-like person I've ever met, calm, happy, selfless) taught me that the way to free yourself from any kind of karma is to learn. He says that we will repeat our painful lessons over and over until we get them right, and if you notice a pattern to your problems, you need to recognize it in order to get rid of it.

    I know this is pretty vague...but I'm still trying to answer the same questions you are. :) I wish you luck with it, and please come to us with any questions or insights you have.
     
  10. Persephone

    Persephone Persephone

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    Hi Cloggie,

    I hear the pain and also the dilemma in your posting. Earlier today I posted on another thread:

    "In 1989, I spent about 3 to 4 weeks, sobbing almost daily about the murder of a child of mine back in the days of the Spanish explorers. It brought a lot of relief and insight, and I think the breaking of a karmic chain. I would like to share it one day."

    I would love to share more with you (and hope to when there is time). What I would share is just my own experience, and I don't claim it to be any part of any religious teaching.

    But I have found that if we 'own' our feelings, and let ourselves 'feel them fully', then we release them, and transform them. Paradoxically, if we deny them or hold them in, then they run our lives, even if we don't want them to.

    I think that is true for this life, and for possible past lives, and I suspect that we bring into this life with us, whatever we need to work on from the past. Is there place in Tibetan Buddhism for the shedding of tears, the feeling of our fears and the owning of our angers?

    I don't know much about that school of Buddhism (a little more about Zen) and it would be nice if you could answer that one for clarity.

    Wishing you peace.
    Warmly,
    Persephone
     
  11. Susie

    Susie Dreamer-former moderator

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    Cloggie,

    Are you speaking of past life karma, both or just this life karma?

    All I really have to say is that nobody can "break free" of karma because everything we do, say and think has some type of consequence, whether negative or positive. However, consciousness creates in the here and now no matter what actions we have chosen in the past. For example, say you have a memory of being downright cruel to someone in a past life-- wouldn't the intent of trying to understand your actions then and acknowledging that you are you in this life now help to release some of the guilt? Perhaps making an amend to that person who you harmed in a past life, even if it were through meditation or writing, would help to clean you karma in the here and now. I believe the most important things regarding karma are: 1) realizing we are in the present. This moment, this breath, are most important; 2) We cannot change what we've done in a past life or the past of this life, we can only make appropriate ammends to someone we've hurt and release the guilt; 3) Consciousness creates, and we are the creator of our reality- we are not responsible for the actions others take toward us, but we are responsible for our own actions and how we handle any situation that comes into our lives.

    That's my two sense, anyway! :D :D :D :D
     
  12. Cloggie777

    Cloggie777 Senior Registered

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    Susie, that's a good point about positive and negative karma. I don't know of any specific past life events where I hurt someone intentionally, but I'm sure that I did. I hadn't thought of it in that way- looking at whatever I did then and trying to forgive myself. The type of karma that I'm referring to is I suppose like an eternal "boomerang"- someone hurt me in one life, I reciprocated that in the next one, they hurt me again in the next one, and so on. In one past lives book I read about a woman's relationship with her mother which went back to ancient China, where one murdered the other and this had gone on backwards and forwards for centuries; I think this woman was having regression as she had never been able to get on with mother in this life, and was trying to find out why and resolve it.
     
  13. Susie

    Susie Dreamer-former moderator

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    This type of karma may be true sometimes, but it is not true all of the time-- just because we hurt someone in a past life does not mean it is their destiny, if you will, for lack of a better term, to come back and hurt is in this life, or vice versa. Sometimes people choose a certain type of a life, take certain actions, do what they do to survive or learn the lessons that are important to them. Just like I don't believe that if we were an abuser in one life, that we "choose" to be born to abusive parents or into a family who treats us badly, or even that we choose people in general who treat us bad. The actions we take can very well be rooted in the present life, in feelings we have about ourselves, low self-esteam, etc. Just because adverse circumstances come our way does not mean we have chosen that path- sometimes things happen beyond our control, but it's all about how we choose to react or handle that situation that brings us into the present moment. I cannot reiterate enough that consciousness creates in the here and now...this moment, this breath...
    Yes, I've heard this story before. But, I don't believe that all karmic bonds are rooted in past lives. And, if they are, we CAN release ourselves from that karmic bond via the intent to do so. Nothing is set in stone-- we are ever changing, the world is ever changing, and that means the power is within us to CHOOSE whether we will hold onto a karmic bond or release ourselves. Change comes from within and nothing nor anything can have any power over us except the power we give it.
     
  14. Persephone

    Persephone Persephone

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    Hi Susie,

    I really like and agree with so much of what you have to say. Thank you for putting it so clearly.

    Hi Cloggie,
    You speak of a life of suffering and pain, and it sounds like you would really like to find a way to get some relief.

    You wrote:
    "The reason I am interested in this subject at the moment is that I (in my opinion) have suffered a lot so far in my life, both physically and psychologically, and some events lately have made me think 'why me?' "

    I hear you that you have been through a lot in this lifetime and sometimes you wonder why it has been so bad. Often we hope that by resolving past-life stuff we may feel better now, and often we do.

    But I believe that we bring into this life-time most of the stuff we need to deal with, and so a good beginning place, is to start working on the painful things that have happened in 'this' life. This life is one of our lifetimes too! ;)

    So I think that by getting help with that, we make a beginning. I have found dealing with this life-time's childhood hurts was a good place to start, and I think it keeps us from carrying that stuff over into the future. I know most of the well-known regression therapists deal with not only past life hurts, but those from this life too.

    You also wrote:
    "So does this mean that if I never get upset with anyone, and forgive everyone for anything they do to me, then I won't suffer so much in my next life?"

    I think if you try never to get upset in this lifetime, you will certainly suffer in this lifetime, not to even mention the next one. Our feelings (hurt, fear, sadness, appropriate anger, etc.) are healthy expressions of who we are, and if we deny them or try to hold them in, we are denying our biology and we will hurt.

    Also if we repress all our so-called 'negative stuff' we will suffer by becoming split off from ourselves, tense and unhappy. If we express those feelings, by feeling them fully (I don't mean by 'acting them out' on other people) then I think we have begun the road to healing.

    I see you are in the UK, so I thought I would just tell you that there is a very good therapist who has helped me lots (phone sessions) and she is in Stroud. So far she and I have worked on my childhood stuff, but she is doing the training course with Roger Woolger this year, and will be offering past-life therapy as well. I can let you have her details in a private message if you are interested.

    I hope this will help a little, and that you will get some relief soon. You deserve it. Happiness is your birthright!

    Warm wishes,
    Persephone

    __________________________________________

    "Thou desirest truth in the inward being" ~ Psalm 51 verse 6
     
  15. Cloggie777

    Cloggie777 Senior Registered

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    Hi Persephone

    Yes I would be interested in the address you mentioned (coincidentally I have a cousin who lives in Stroud).

    I know what you mean about how we can't help having emotions like anger, sadness etc. Sometimes I have let people "walk all over me" so to speak, and part of me has thought that I should let things go and not argue, but recently I have felt that I should stand up for myself and be more assertive. This is the bit that I can't seem to reconcile with my beliefs in Karma: someone upsets me, karmic law says that I shouldn't do the same thing back to them? Is that correct, or have I misinterpreted it? I personally find the whole thing very complicated- if I hurt (physically or in some other way) "Fred" in a past life, does that mean that he has to do something in the next life to balance the karma, or not, if he forgives me in the "in-between lives" stage? I was also thinking about how this would work as the circumstances of the entire world change, e.g. if you ran someone over with a horse and cart in the 1800's, and killed them, would that transpose to being killed in a vehicle crash in modern times? I think the amount of people involved makes it even more complex, although I have heard of group karma. Another example of this could be modern surgery; my surgeon saved my life when I was very ill, so does that mean that 1) in the past I had saved his life, or 2) in the past I injured him badly in the same area as I underwent the surgery , or 3) he murdered me in a past life?
     
  16. Persephone

    Persephone Persephone

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    Hello Cloggie,

    You wrote:
    "Yes I would be interested in the address you mentioned (coincidentally I have a cousin who lives in Stroud)."

    I'll be happy to send it to you. I wasn't sure how far from Stroud you are -- I see you are in Cambridgeshire somewhere. (That's near to where I had my first past-life recall -- passing Ely Cathederal, on a visit to England).

    Clogige:
    "I know what you mean about how we can't help having emotions like anger, sadness etc. Sometimes I have let people 'walk all over me' so to speak, and part of me has thought that I should let things go and not argue, but recently I have felt that I should stand up for myself and be more assertive."

    Wonderful! I think it is so important that we set healthy boundaries and don't allow people to abuse us. We are not doing them a favour if we let them anyway, as that then becomes their responsibility that they have to deal with. Though as Deborah pointed out on another thread, each of us is responsible only for our own actions.

    Cloggie:
    "This is the bit that I can't seem to reconcile with my beliefs in Karma: someone upsets me, karmic law says that I shouldn't do the same thing back to them? Is that correct, or have I misinterpreted it? I personally find the whole thing very complicated."

    I personally don't adhere to the idea of karma as simple "cause and effect". I think we come here to learn lessons (often new ones), and as soon as we have learned them, we can move on. Like Karoliina says, "An eye for an eye will make us all blind", and that would serve no purpose at all. So I think if we have done something that hurt someone else, we may choose to go through something similar ourselves (with that person or with someone else) to discover what that felt like. Then there is no need to relive that again. Only if we refuse to learn from our actions, we may choose at soul-level to have an opportunity to learn the lessson again.

    Regarding 'good' karma, I think we often come back with the same people, over and over, and if we have shared good experiences, then we will support those good friends of ours in this life and have a chance to support them, to say, "thank you". I also think that if we have hurt someone, and we are able to feel true remorse, then the matter is over, and there is no need to have to go through any kind of 'punishment'. We are here to learn and grow, not to have to suffer.

    Elisabeth Kubler-Ross said that in the 'life review' if we have hurt others, we will be able to feel how it was for them, as we will experiece it as if it happened to ourselves. I can't comment on that, but my understanding would be that if that is true, then we would gain understanding at that point, and not have to come back to suffer for it all over again.

    Hope this helps.
    Warmly,
    Persephone
     
  17. Persephone

    Persephone Persephone

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    Dear Cloggie,

    I was interrupted when posting to you and lost the thread a bit, so I would like to finish it here...

    I wrote:
    "I can't comment on that, but my understanding would be that if that is true, then we would gain understanding at that point, and not have to come back to suffer for it all over again."

    I don't actually think we "have" to come back to suffer for things we have done, but sometimes we put ourselves through that, because we can't forigive ourselves. (That is my personal story I want to write about when there is time.)

    The people who I had hurt, had long ago moved on, it was I who was was stuck with feelings I was bad, and putting myself through stuff I didn't have to go through. Reliving those 4 life-times freed me from that. One person in our group felt he had hurt me, and couldn't forgive himself, so we laid that to rest too.

    I think there is also the fact that we live in an imperfect world, and people often hurt us when we are small, and we can't tell them what we feel, or need. That doesn't have to be karma -- it can just be something unfortunate to be worked through and to learn wisdom and get insight from.

    Also, children who have died with their last thoughts being on something unhappy, may bring these memories back with them when they are small, and may be confused. Carol's stories of children who died in house fires or drowned, is a good illustration of that.

    I like the way it was handled in her books. The children were helped to tell the difference between what was 'old stuff' and what was 'happening now'. Catharsis, with crying, or expressions of fear or anger (like in regular therapy) also helped them to clear that.

    Warm wishes,
    Persephone

    _______________________________________

    "Compassion for myself is the most powerful healer of them all" ~ Theodore Isaac Rubin
     
  18. tommcfearsom

    tommcfearsom Senior Registered

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    Karmic Lessons


    Hello Folks


    My question is how does the Soul learn from Karma?? Are we here to learn a new lesson through our Karma such a Love, Loyalty,Beauty etc.?? Are we here to learn the results of our Karmic mistakes?? Are we here to learn about being God,Spirit, The Light etc. and our Karma is only context in which to learn??


    I look forward to your comments.


    Yours Truly


    John R.
     
  19. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

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    Well, John, there are going to be different thoughts on this, but here are mine.


    I think the 'soul' understands all these things; love, beauty, courage, compassion and so forth 'in theory' already. In one way of looking at it, our spirits/souls are all little sparks of the greater fire of God (however you conceive her). In my view, the eternal soul is 'being' - it just 'is' - outside of time and space. The life down on this plain in 3D world is all about 'doing' - experiencing things, pleasant and unpleasant: pain, pleasure, death, love, hunger, fear, whatever. I don't know, have you seen the film 'City of Angels'? (or the German version, 'Wings of Desire'). In that film, although the hero, who is an angel, has everything, immortality, freedom from fear, pain, death, etc. (all the things that most people have a longing for) still he craves experience even if it is potentially painful. He falls in love with a mortal woman but can't experience the full 'glory' of that emotion until he descends into mortality. When he gets his wish and becomes mortal too, he gets it in technicolour, although, ultimately it ends in tragedy. I think somehow 'life' is a bit like that.


    I think the experience of coming to live life in the material world is more like a 'prac' - where you see if the theory you think you understand works in a real situation.


    It is all very well, when sitting up on a cloud in 'heaven' to say "Oh, yes, I understand, love is the answer!". It is a very different thing to practise it when someone has burned down your home and killed your family (or something).


    It is all very well to say "Oh, yes, we should all have compassion and share everything and self-sacrifice" and it is quite another to have the strength to give away your last crust of bread when your stomach is growling and your children are crying.
     
  20. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    It is my belief that there is a "grand order of things" regarding karmic lessons, which is often beyond our understanding because we "don't remember" what lies behind them. But, to me, there is a purpose and a reason behind everything we experience... :thumbsup:
     
  21. Ravenheart

    Ravenheart New Member

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    This is very similar to my personal beliefs. I think that we are here to learn by experience.


    We get to see both sides of every relationship. We get to be the father who runs out on the family, and also have the experience of being the child left behind. We gain the experience of being both the murderer and the victim. We have the experience of saving a life, and being saved by someone else.


    When we have been through every possible facet of humanity (yes I know that translates into a zillion lives) we will only be capable of love and compassion. We will be the pure form of the higher self....and the little nagging selfish parts will be drowned out.


    I believe that we tend to be reborn with the same group of souls because we need to balance out karma earned with each other before...


    I agree that life on earth is tantamount to being in "soul school". We have no choice but to learn cause and effect, and eventually that becomes a lesson in love.
     
  22. tommcfearsom

    tommcfearsom Senior Registered

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    Different Souls For Different Folks


    Hello Folks


    In my experience as an Intuitive working with folks on past life recognition folks seem to feel the Soul works different ways. Hinduism suggests that the Soul must experience all things where Buddhism suggests that enlightenment may come in one lifetime and at any moment. There are folks who think that Karma is strictly retributive and others that experience lessons in suffering. Still other folks seem to feel that Grace and Dharma transcend the retributive effects of Karma (forgiveness).


    This suggest to me different Soul Groups with slightly differing belief systems working with Karma in their own unique ways. In other words "All of the above" maybe an answer.


    Yours Truly


    John R.
     
  23. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

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    Hello Ravenheart and welcome. Nicely put. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts about all this.


    Yes John, it is true there are a variety of beliefs and theories about karma. It is a complicated subject and perhaps the truth lies somewhere amidst of all these ideas. Perhaps there is no 'rule' that governs everyone the same way?


    I don't actually agree with you that Buddhists believe that you can become 'enlightened' in a single lifetime. That does not agree with the reading I have done, but there are many schools of Buddhism, just as there are various different flavours of Christianity, so I may not have come across that idea.


    Someone may have contended that it is theoretically possible to do everything in one lifetime, although I don't personally think it is practically feasible. Buddhism, as far as I understand from what I have read, generally contends that the path towards 'enlightenment' is slow and painstaking, requiring innumerable lifetimes of virtuous acts and control and purification of ones thoughts and can involve backward movement if you don't have a care.


    How do you think it works?
     
  24. tommcfearsom

    tommcfearsom Senior Registered

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    Me And My Karma


    Hello Tanguerra


    Vajrayana Buddhism is one tradition that teaches the faith of enlightenment in one lifetime. This takes much meditation to accomplish.


    I subscribe the reincarnation theories of Edgar Cayce. I think that we are here to learn from our Karma but that grace, forgiveness, Dharma, and enlightenment modifies or cancels the retributive properties of Karma.


    I think we also have two life purpose to learn 1.) our Right Labor (service) which flows out of our collective life lessons,2.) the life purpose of "Remembering who we are." (original identity) as The Light.


    Karma is the context in which we learn and Dharma (service) is the substance of what we learn.


    Yours Truly


    John R.
     
  25. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hi John,

    This sounds too much like the Christian concept of just one lifetime to reach "heaven". Personally, I don't think it is possible, although certainly each soul/spirit has a chance in every lifetime to do just that. It is just that we are not "perfect" or "perfected" enough to reach such a level as yet. I, for one, know that I still have A LOT to learn.


    Once I was told something along these lines: "Do not interpret "karma" as "punishment". Understand it as a process of "purification".


    I personally agree with this view... :thumbsup:


    To me, karma is the process by which we learn by experiencing the results of the choices of our free-will. What goes around, comes around. It is the only process that fully englobes the concept of "perfect justice".
     
  26. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

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    Yes, there are many schools of thought within the general area of Buddhism, which is a very ancient belief system practised throughout a range of different cultures. Some are more theoretical and esoteric than others - having been founded by very deep thinking, intellectual monks and various fairly mystically oriented holy men. Some are simpler and more focussed on daily life, right action in the real world and practical matters of that nature.


    While it may be possible to become 'enlightened' (ascend to perfection, godhead, whatever you want to call it) in one lifetime by spending it in deep meditation and behaving perfectly, I think it would have taken many lifetimes to get to the point where one chose to spend one's life that way - so the contention is an academic and theoretical one in my view.
     
  27. Ravenheart

    Ravenheart New Member

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    My idea of Karma (and this is just my personal view) is that it's more than "what goes around comes around" or a cosmic "payback" for actions taken. Yeah there may be some of that in the mix....but for me it's more about staying in the middle path.


    It is about 'giving" as well as "receiving", but staying balanced. Kind of a "take what you need"..."give back what you don't need". And for me....there is a strong sense that gaining experience is at the core of karma's function. Karma ensures that you get to see the other half of the equation. Experience deepens us.....like carving out a deep river bed so more water can flow through. I also think there is some purifying that takes place through "burning off karma". Somehow I think we come out "higher, lighter" from having made the journey, with all the joys and suffering that came along with it.


    Ya know.....this is really hard to put into words!!!!!! :eek:
     
  28. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    HI Ravenheart,


    You have done a beautiful job putting it into words....almost poetic. Thank you for sharing your thoughts; I understand what you mean...and have held similar thoughts. BTW - Welcome to the forum. :D
     
  29. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Yes, I agree, but according to Spiritist concepts any "action" always carries a "reaction", whether positive or negative, and "ascending" or "becoming enlightened" also necessarily involves "helping others in the same process"; in other words, one can only truly "ascend" by practicing charity and right actions and by not accumulating more "negative karma". Meditation, alone and in itself, is not suffice for "enlightenment"...
     
  30. tommcfearsom

    tommcfearsom Senior Registered

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    Get Out Of Jail Free Card


    Hello Folks


    I think we can become or at least experience our enlightenment in any lifetime or moment. I have met dozens of folks from many cultures who are just natural Buddahs. Generous, kind, forgiving, optimistic etc. Just being around them is life restoring, in fact it is... well... enlightening, so much so that we feel freed from our own burdens. These folks foster an attitude of gratitude and encourage folks to not be trapped by the illusion of limitation. I think this maybe the legendary "get out of jail free card" that enlightenment promises (Christian, Buddhist or otherwise). In other words the enlightenment that comes from true forgiveness.


    I look at these folks as natural Bhodisatvas, naturally enlightened folks who incarnate to serve humanity through service and forgiveness.


    Yours Truly


    John R.
     

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