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Late 1800's/Early 1900s

MoonDansyr

MoonDansyr

Senior Registered
This is short, but it's what came to me last night.

It was night and I was sitting in a rocking chair in the front room of a 2-3 story house. Even though it was night, I was dressed (in a long dress), with my hair up in a bun. I was knitting by the low lamp light. Beside me was a simple coffin with a [somewhat young] woman inside. She had coins over her eyes and she was dressed similarly to me and her hair was done similarly, as well. I'm not sure who she was.
 
Wow! That's really interesting, Kat!

I've never heard of putting coins over someone's eyes before. Have you? Do you have any idea where that comes from?
 
QUOTE: It is a custom in some cultures to place coins on the eyelids of the dead to keep their eyes closed. I remember my grandmother reaching into her purse for two shiny quarters that she subsequently placed on my grandfather's eyes after he died. I asked her why. She told me that it was a Magyar custom to close the eyes of the dead with silver because, if they remain open, we would see our own death captured in their eyes.

I think this was quite a common practice in the Victorian era.
 
I'm not consicously aware of having that knowledge, Ailish, but that doesn't mean I didn't hear about it at some point along the way. I am familiar with putting scarves or other fabrics over mirrors.

It was wild - - I saw it so clearly - - and was completely awake. I even told Travis as I was "watching" the scene. It was weird because I was so much *there* yet I knew I was right here! I didn't feel any emotions, though, so I have to wonder who the decedent was. At first I thought it could have been my [then] sister, having died in childbirth, but I honestly have no idea and then pondered if I could have been a maid or some such. At the same time, maybe the lack of emotion was because I was so aware that I was in the here and now at the same time as I was watching the scene.

The details were so vivid! I can describe the entire front part of the house ... the front door opened to an entryway/foyer. Beyond the foyer were the stairs along the left wall and a hall along the right that went back to what I just *know* was the kitchen. However, before the hall, if you turned immediately right, there was the parlour/living room, but it was almost like a double room - - oh and it had pocket doors from the hall. There was also a large window at the front of the house and an oblong table in front of the window - - that's where the lamp was that was lowly lit. There was a round table in the front part of the room with a red tablecloth ... um ... not sure of the fabric name (brocade maybe?) ... part velvet, part silk with a floral pattern, but solid red with a fringe along the bottom. But it wasn't a dining table, it was like a game table, for playing cards or chess, etc. There were also windows along the outter wall and two fireplaces - - one at the front part of the room (where I was) along the outter wall, and then one at the back wall which I feel shared a floo with the kitchen, but the back seemed to be the actual "livingroom" type setting. The rocker I was sitting in didn't have arms on it, either. Just lots and lots of detail.

I've had one dream from this time period and I know they're the same life. How? I don't know, I just *know*.

Edit to add: I've just done some online research about the coins. I've found three explanations, not sure what's rumor and what isn't. One is that it is Greek (?) and for the deceased to have fare for the ferryman to carry them across the River Styx - - and that some people put the coins in the mouth rather than over the eyes. Also, one was to keep bugs out of/off of the decedant's eyes. Another was to keep the eyes closed during the time when rigor mortis set in, so that the rigor mortis wouldn't pull the eyes back open.
 
An extremely interesting account MoonDansyr. What you described about no emotions is very similar to how I receive Instant Knowledge, which is how I receive most of my PL memories. While you received more details than I usually do, I think that's possibly what you experienced.

John
 
Hi John~

I was doing a meditation. While I've gotten a few things with meditaions - - I have to do like 50 or so meditations before I get anything. This was one of them.

What I think of as Instant Knowledge was like when I was vacuuming or doing dishes and a scene just "pops" into my mind. But now that you mention it - - you're right. I haven't had emotions with those, either. I think I get the most emotion from my PL dreams (and man! They can slay me!)
 
MoonDansyr said:
Hi John~

I was doing a meditation. While I've gotten a few things with meditaions - - I have to do like 50 or so meditations before I get anything. This was one of them.

What I think of as Instant Knowledge was like when I was vacuuming or doing dishes and a scene just "pops" into my mind. But now that you mention it - - you're right. I haven't had emotions with those, either. I think I get the most emotion from my PL dreams (and man! They can slay me!)
Click to expand...

The vast majority of mine come while meditating. The few I get while active come usually when I'm writing, which sure can ruin my chain of thought. That said, quite often when I write poetry, the entire poem is "given" to me as Instant Knowledge, but of course it's not exactly the same as my PL Imprinting or Instant Knowledge.

The Imprinting, which is sort of like a lightening strike, which I then retrieve as dreams while meditating, is what seems to contain emotions. It can take months and even years to fully retrieve Imprinting. I'd say the 50 or so sessions for each success is about right, or even a bit low for me. With me, it's almost as if I get stuff one drop at a time.

John
 
Hi Moondansyr,
I was told very early in my life that putting pennys (coins) on the eyes was to hold the eyelids closed. I'm sure that this practise continued well into the 1900's especially were the body had to be kept in location for some time before the funeral (such as a farm many miles from town).
My wife told me that when she was nursing that wet cotton balls were placed on the eylids of the dead in lieu of pennys.
 
John~

"one drop at a time" ;) you can say that again! Actually, I seem to go through "spells" where I will get a few "hits" and then go through a long dry spell. One of these days, I will start making note of the planetary alignments, just to see if there's any correlation! :laugh:

Thanks theycallmejoe! In my vision, the coins looked like silver half dollars - - at the very least, quarters. Hmmm ... maybe I'll research when they began making half dollars and if they were ever pure silver. I've seen old silver dimes before, but not half dollars.
 
A similar floor plan

I went looking at victorian architecture and floor plans and found one very similar to what I saw.

The exterior is on the bottom left of this page.

The floor plan is here. The differences are subtle. While I didn't see it, I know the porch didn't extend over in front of the front window and there wasn't the initial entry/porch. You just went up the steps to the squarish porch and through the front door that is at the hall (does that makes sense?). Then, after entering, there were pocket doors to the "parlor" rather than swinging. I don't think there was an angled wall at the far corner, and there were windows on either side of the first fire place. Also, the room wasn't "divided" by pocket doors/walls the way this floor plan is. Further, the doors leading to the hall weren't there. There was a swinging door to the left of the rear fireplace leading straight into the kitchen (where that closet is). I'm not sure where the dining room was ... I guess there may have been a couple rooms on the other side of the stairs, but that aspect isn't as clear, as I'm not clear on what the exterior looked like, other than I know the porch didn't extend across the front. Weird, huh?
 
I just did a quick search and didn't come up with anything and I'm now running out the door.

Does anyone know if it was customary to leave a light on in the front window where someone had recently died? This has been constantly in the back of my mind and I can't find anything on it. In the image, I was knitting, which would need some light, but the light was specifically sitting in the front window, which was behind me and quite some distance ... 10-12 feet away. I'd think if I were "using" the light, I'd have been sitting nearer. I don't know. I just have this feeling that it was a nightly symbol, much like crapes on the door were also a symbol.
 
I think that it may derive from sitting vigil with the deceased. It has been common for ages past for the wake to be held in the home (particularly in the Victorian era) and there would be someone to accompany the body at all times during the vigil. I know it goes into some traditional beliefs, but I cant recall the exact source right off the top of my head.

It isnt unseen, however, that it would have been done, considering the emphasis that the Victorian society put on death, as they would have wanted to (for lack of a better term) advertise that someone had died.

Also, I would wonder if that isnt one of the roots of the candlelight vigil that we have today. Candles have long been regarded as symbols of both rememberance, and of illumination in dark times.

Heres a link on victorian death ritual... not particularly in depth, but a good primer IMHO
http://www.deathonline.net/remembering/mourning/victorian.cfm

A second page, mostly funerary
http://www.morbidoutlook.com/nonfiction/articles/2003_04_vicdeath.html

Ill see if I can dig up anything else. I remember a number of years ago I had a book of Victorian Liverpool Ghost stories that had a very well detailed section on the vigil process that said something about having a candle lit by the body at all times during the vigil, Ill see if I can find it.

Wilhelm
 
Thanks so much Brooklyn Fan! "Advertise" does explain the "feeling" I have about it. And it was a lamp that uses oil/fuel - - not an electric lamp. I know exactly what kind of lamp it was, but no clue what it's called - - I'll have to see if I can find one.

Something else that has been "in the back of my mind" about this - - I feel certain that the coins on the eyes were silver dollars. I didn't see them up close in the vision, but it just seems like I knew they were silver dollars.
 
This is from a paper on death rituals in appalacia, but the reasoning seems sound.

"The eyes of the deceased would normally be open at death. To remedy this, silver coins were placed over the eyes to close them. This custom was exercised because in those days, they believed that entry into Heaven with their closed was a divine way to enter. This was a means of saying to God that they are not worthy of entering Heaven and asking God to forgive them of their sins. Silver coins were used instead of pennies. The copper element in the pennies would cause the skin around the eyes to turn green."

Also, remember that at that time, death was an extravagent thing. It would be considered poor form to place something as cheap as pennies on the eyes of the deceased unless you were really poor. Silver was an expensive metal, but still attainable, whereas something like gold would more than likely be far too expensive for most people to afford. Just my speculations, however, your mileage may vary.

BTW, was it a 'hurricane' style lantern?
 
Thanks so much, Wil. At first, I just kind of figured I saw quarters, but it's been like this little voice in the back of my mind saying, "silver dollars" ... and I'm not sure why.

Not quite hurricane (or what I think of as hurricane. Here's one and another. I can't say it looked like either of those "exactly" but they give you an idea of the style.
 
Hey Kat,

I think you have quite a bit to go on. Have you thought about looking up the pocket doors? When were they used? You have quite a bit of detail that might be investigated to give you a time frame. The pocket doors jumped out at me though.

Also, just curious. I understand that you as yourself now didn't feel any emotion but could you tell if you then (the woman knitting) was feeling anything. Did she look as if she'd been crying or did she appear upset or nonchalant? I thought that might be a clue as to her relationship to the decedent.

Vicky
 
Hi Vicky~

Pocket doors are pretty common in Victorian Homes, I think.

I know exactly what I was wearing and how my hair was fixed. I said it was up in a bun, but it wasn't a snug bun ... it was kind of poofy. I'm trying to locate pictures of similar dresses and hairstyles. From what I can tell (so far), it's looking like the late 1890's ... like maybe 1898.

As for the emotion ... initially, my "gut" feeling was that this had been my sister and she had died in childbirth. I don't know why *at all* ... but that wasn't anything I "knew" ... it was just speculation. She could have died from anything! It seems that sometimes distant relatives or sometimes friends (maybe someone from the family's church) might sit up with the dead, to give some relief to the immediate family, so maybe that's why there wasn't any emotion. However, I feel like I was very familiar with the house, so that makes me think I was either family or maid.

Oh and for the table with the red cloth on it ... I had a "poof" of "oh yeahhhh" ... tea was served there often.

I'm really finding this particular "memory" interesting because I keep getting little "whisperings" in the back of my mind about it.

I just got my Jeffrey Thompson CDs today, so I'm going to try another meditation with those. Wish me luck!
 
MoonDansyr said:
I just got my Jeffrey Thompson CDs today, so I'm going to try another meditation with those. Wish me luck!
Click to expand...

Hey Kat,

Good luck with the Jeffrey Thompson cd's, let us know how you get on, I've had some good results with those.
 
In looking at dress styles of the victorian era, it's looking like 1888 is the most likely. HOWEVER! The hairstyles aren't matching. :( The hairstyle I saw was like the woman on the left. I believe that's more 1910-ish.

:( *hmph*
 
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