Soul-splitting

Discussion in 'SCIENTIFIC and ANECDOTAL research' started by Groovy, Dec 14, 2007.

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  1. Groovy

    Groovy New Member

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    The aim of this thread is to explore the concept of soul-splitting – which, for the purpose of this discussion, I will define as making simultaneous use of more than one physical body – in an effort to ascertain its plausibility. The facets that interest me are:
    - How far does it extend, on both the micro (how small can a soul fragment be) and macro (how large can the whole soul be) scale?
    - Are there limitations on where different bodies can operate (must/cannot be on the same physical world, different worlds, different dimensions, etc)?
    - Are there limitations on when the bodies can be used (simultaneous births, deaths, etc)?
    - Is it unworkable in the face of other popular concepts (self-awareness, karma, spiritual evolution, etc)?
     
  2. Groovy

    Groovy New Member

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    Same here.

    I don’t quite follow your reasoning. In what way does living lives simultaneously make the future more inflexible than living lives sequentially?
     
  3. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hi Groovy,

    I was actually referring to "simultaneous time" or "everything (past, present and future) is all happening in the "now". If this were so, our "future" would already be "pre-set", which would eliminate the alternative that we are free to decide on or "create" our own destinies through the freedom of our own free will.


    As for "simultaneous lives", let me try to put it this way: can you really imagine you yourself "splitting" into two people, or an "exact double"? Who would be "you"? Both of you? Ok, certainly it might be possible, but to me, personally, it just doesn't make sense. To me, as I said before, each "soul-spirit" ("soul" being the essence of who we are, our "conscious self" or "true self" or even our "higher self", and "spirit" being the spiritual body which apparently we all retain when we disincarnate, which is the same in shape, form and appearance as the physical body of our previous incarnation) is a unique and indivisible unit. As far as I know, the "soul" or "thought/consciousness" has absolutely no mass (and is for this reason undetectable by "science"), whereas the "spiritual body" does (there is a thread in the forum referring to it as having a "weight" of 21 grams, which is here).

    As far as I know, from the unimaginably small size of a single cell to its capacity of "expanding" almost to infinity, which can indeed create an "illusion" of being in two places simultaneously. Apparently, however, it cannot animate two physical bodies simultaneously. The individual reincarnatory experience requires the use of only one physical body at a time.

    Again, to my knowledge it is a question of "either/or". It cannot be in both simultaneously.

    Yes, I think so, but I look forward to reading the views of others... :thumbsup:
     
  4. John Rian

    John Rian New Member

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    Anecdote here:


    I know of a man, I have just read his story on another site, Whose Yogi told him that he had two bodies in his last incarnation. One of them he remembers vividly but the other he has no knowledge of save what the Yogi has told him. The life he remembers was as a teenage Bulgarian Jew who died in the Holocaust. At the same time, according to the Yogi, who also told the man, to his astonishment, of the Bulgarian life, according to the Yogi he was also the Yogi's young disciple who was killed in riots surrounding Mahatma Gandhi's movement.


    It is very interesting...


    So I guess I am inclined to believe that soul splitting is true due to the claimed experience of others.
     
  5. Karoliina

    Karoliina Moderator Emerita

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    On the other hand different people have different experiences. I have yet to "decide" whether to believe in concurrent lifetimes or not. Sources I trust claim it's happening, on the other hand I don't have personal experience of that. I do have PL memories that _could_ very well be overlapping, and fitting them on the same timeline is a tight job, but as I'm not positive on the dates, it's also possible they really did take place in different times - just with hardly any intervals.


    I don't see a problem why it couldn't be true, but I guess I will believe it only when I have my own experience of it. :eek: I've read about techniques you could use to try and find about your current concurrent lifetimes - maybe I ought to try them out.


    Karoliina
     
  6. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hiya Guys,


    Thought I'd post this just for a laugh... :D


    Answer Rates:


    Answers...................................$ 1.00


    Answers which require thought.... $ 2.00


    Right answers........................... $ 4.00


    Dumb looks are still going for free.


    :D :laugh::thumbsup:


    Groovy, look forward to reading your own views. :thumbsup:
     
  7. tommcfearsom

    tommcfearsom Senior Registered

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  8. Groovy

    Groovy New Member

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    Thank you for the link, tommcfearsom. I didn’t realise that this topic has been discussed so recently.
     
  9. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hi Groovy,


    Does that mean I'm being ignored????? :confused: :( Guys, I really would like to read a more coherent and comprehensible argumentation than "so and so said" or "so and so wrote", even for my own understanding.


    My main problem with "soul splitting" is that it involves the possibility of our losing, as individual conscious beings, the individuality of who we are... I am even open to the idea, but would like to read some coherent explanations. In my view, "I" am my "Oversoul". It is not something external to me, it is "Who I Am".


    The fact that the Soul can expand does also mean it can access "thoughts and memories" of others. I've personally had this experience with a man I had never seen who "saw" everything I was going through...
     
  10. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    I brought up an older thread that discusses simultaneous time as a viable experience and an extened understanding of time/space as we know it. I tend to agree with you Charles regarding soul-splitting; I think - more often than not - people who claim soul splitting are experiencing non-local knowing not two separate lives. ;)


    If we look at the mind/body/spirit as holographic, we are all connected. Added to that there are only six degrees of separation between one individual and another. Imagine the possibilities when reincarnation is considered. IMO a much better form of research is needed regarding consciousness ...and well, you know me - the LIGHT.
     
  11. Military

    Military New Member

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    I don't believe you can split your soul and live in other bodies at the same time. Carl Newton says something about that in one of his books, but I just find it very hard to understand and believe.:confused:


    So at the moment I don't believe in soul splitting.
     
  12. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Thank you, Deborah. :thumbsup: I agree entirely...


    Would just like to remind members that this is the "Science" section of the Forum. We are looking for logical or scientific back up to support what most here know to be the reality of reincarnation from their own personal experience... :cool :)
     
  13. Groovy

    Groovy New Member

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    This is what I was waiting for. Sorry if this has left you feeling neglected. hug2.gif

    I don’t see how this follows. I we multitask and talk while using our hands instead of talking first and then using our hands, the basic nature of the two actions doesn’t fundamentally change. It definitely doesn’t make using our hands pre-set and beyond our control. It comes down to the question of whether a soul has the capacity to multitask.

    I don’t have difficulty imagining this. My view is that this has already happened – the God-soul has split to give rise to innumerable individual souls. All of them are me (and you). All I’m suggesting here is that the process can take place on a smaller scale as well.


    I quite like the way this is worded in the book Home with God by Neale Donald Walsch:

     
  14. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hi Groovy,


    Not neglected, just ignored... :rolleyes: I had said, in my post where I joked about the "answer rates", that I looked forward to your own views. You next post was just thanking Tom for the link. No worries...


    Of all you have said, all I can say is this: Ok, that's fine. But HOW???

    From my own experience with spirituality and spiritual entities, I have to disagree, for as I said before, there are no "quantum leaps" when a soul disincarnates. It basically remains the same essence/soul/consciousness/personality of who he/she was while incarnate.


    Perhaps, indeed, at one stage it will, and I do believe it does, but this stage can and does take eons...

    Indeed, we are a part of "The Whole", but the gift is one of eternal life. We are all "Individual Parts of The Whole", and to my knowledge we will never ever lose our own individual identity. This is "the gift". I am me and you are you. Each one a unique and individual unit, with our own experiences and individual progress in the learning process of reincarnation.


    Will be back tomorrow...
     
  15. Indian

    Indian Senior Registered

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    Here's an article describing regression therapist and author D i c k Suthpen´s wiew on how reincarnation works - some type of oversouls implanting their soul atoms in more than one body at a time.


    I dont know myself, I'm more into individual souls on a journey like Michael Newton describes with parallell incarnations perhaps being possible, but rare.


    I can't say I have yet seen any definitive evidence in either direction.
     
  16. John Rian

    John Rian New Member

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    I'm not sure that you have established this as yet. I can conceive of sequential lives being lived at the same time in time. It is a little hard to explain, but I have done the thought experiment and I'm satisfied that it is possible. However, I wouldn't call what I am thinking of as "soul splitting".
     
  17. Groovy

    Groovy New Member

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    I misunderstood your post about answer rates. I thought that you were advising me to look forward to reading my own comments as no one else was going to comment on the topic. OK, no worries.

    The difference between our views seems to be that you see the merger with the God-soul as the culmination/end of the journey whereas I see it as an integral part of it.

    I don’t see the merger as losing our individual identity so much as transcending it to encompass all other identities as well. I also see the merger as reversible – an integral part of the journey of each individual soul.

    I’m not scared. :)
     
  18. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hi Groovy,

    No reason to be (although I, personally, often find myself in a state of anxiety when I enter the Forum to read replies to my posts). I said "I will be back" only because we are in different time zones, and I wanted to let you and everyone know that I wouldn't be connecting anymore yesterday. I think we must be careful in "cybertalks" as to how we interpret what others "say", because it's often hard to interpret what is behind what is "said" without the "face-to-face" and intonations. This is why I like using the "smilies"... :thumbsup:

    True. I also see it as an integral part of it, but I also believe that the purpose of reincarnation is "spiritual evolution", with "God Consciousness" or "Heaven" or "Nirvana" or the "Reunion with the Cosmic Consciousness" as our "ultimate goal". But even upon reaching this stage (which takes numerous incarnations), we will never be "innactive". Just as an example, I consider Jesus to be the most evolved Soul ever to have incarnated on this planet, and he is very probably already at this stage, but he still exists as an "Individual Consciousness". However, to the best of my knowledge, this does not occur to the vast majority of us immediately after we disincarnate.


    There are inumerous "levels" in the Spiritual Universe. Deborah mentioned "The Light". To my knowledge these levels are "layers within the Light", ranging from the more "dense" to the least "dense". "Pure Spirits" are seen as "Pure Light". To the best of my knowledge, the density of the Spiritual Body is determined by the degrees of purity of our "Soul/Consciousness", and, after death, we are attracted to the realms that "ressonate" with our "Soul/Consciousness".


    The concept of an "Oversoul" brings with it the concept that we are "already pure and perfected". I don't see it that way. If this were so, what would be the purpose of reincarnation? According to my own understanding, we were created pure, but in ignorance. Reincarnation is the process by which we "grow and learn spiritually", until we have purified and perfected ourselves to the point in which we will again "ressonate" with the "Original Source/God".

    I can understand your reasoning, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. Yes, I believe we can and do have the capacity to access the "Collective Subconsciousness" or "Akasha Records" and "experience" what others have experienced. What I don't believe is that we will ever lose our own individual identity. As I said, I believe "eternal life is the only free gift of God".


    If it were possible for a Soul to split and accumulate the experiences (and karmas) of two simultaneous lives, there would very probably be a "quantum leap" when the two reunited. This is not what is observable from spiritual communications.


    Hi John,

    Exactly. It IS hard to explain (and in my view, therefore "not true"). My problem with this concept, as I have said before, is that this would also mean that our "future lives" are set in stone and inflexible, which would eliminate the notion we have of our "free will" and that our "Soul/Consciousnesses" have the freedom to co-create our future destinies and "realities".


    Now we're getting somewhere. :thumbsup: Look forward to reading more about your views... :) : angel
     
  19. John Rian

    John Rian New Member

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    I'm not sure that hard to explain = not true.


    I don't think that what I am referring to is actually soul splitting.
     
  20. PaperMoon

    PaperMoon Lived before

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    Hi there, I believe that overlapping or simultanious lives may be capable but I don't think it's form soul splitting. I think it has more to do with reincarnation and the fact that in the afterlife our souls are outside time, and if that's the case then who says that reincarnation has to always happen along the timeline as we know it on earth?
    :) I think that maybe someone can live one life and then get reincarnated into the same timeline or with a few overlapping years and will only be experiencing one of those lives at a time. Like if someone dies today then get reincarnated as a kid again in some other place in 1950. They will live a simultanious life with their other self but expereince only one life. Sometimes people can die and be reincarnated years after their death but the time does not feel like that many years passed by to them being outside time so if that can happen then surely someone can be reincarnated backwards in time since time does not exist in the afterlife. :thumbsup: That could also be why some experience deja vu concerning certain events if they have lived in that same timeline before. That's how I think simultanious lives can occur. :) I don't think the soul can split.


     
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  21. Groovy

    Groovy New Member

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    I used to feel the same when anticipating replies to my posts at the Internet Infidels Discussion Forum, but not here. People are friendly here.

    You keep using the word again. Is it because you see this as a cyclic occurrence?

    This really depends on how much growth is achieved in a single incarnation. If we need hundreds or thousands of incarnations to attain, say, Christ consciousness, the growth achieved in two incarnations would not be easily distinguishable from the growth achieved in one.
     
  22. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hi John Rian,


    Please don't take anything that is said here personally. Some of you are new to the Forum, and these discussions have been running up here for a loooong time... :) :thumbsup:

    No, of course not, but regarding "simultaneous time" and "simultaneous lives" I don't believe this is so mainly for the reason I have presented, but I will extend here further...


    Hi Papermoon,


    My understanding is that we perceive "time" as "sequences of events", or vice versa, "sequences of events" as "time". In the Spiritual Realms, it does indeed seem that "time" is perceived differently, but there still are, nevertheless, "sequences of events", and therefore a form of "time". If there were no "sequences of events", then the Spiritual Realm would be at a standstill, and we know this is not so... :thumbsup:


    Apparently, due to the far lesser density of the spiritual realms, the "sequences of events" occur at a much faster rate, and therefore "time" is perceived differently. Ten years in "Earthly time" could correspond to one week in "Spiritual time". Do you understand what I'm trying to say by that?


    Many people think, or believe, as you do, but in my view "time" is a "sequence of events" that cannot run backwards, nor be jumped forwards. As I said before, I cannot go back to being the child I once was just as I cannot wake up tomorrow morning to find that I am old. :) To the best of my knowledge, we also cannot reincarnate in our "past" or in our "future", only in the "now" that we know as our "present"...

    Yes, this is so and does truly occur...

    Not due to "being outside time", but by perceiving "time" differently...

    I don't think so. If you live a life in the 1950's and have reincarnated into a life "now", you are in a continuation of your life "then" and responding karmically for your thoughts, actions and deeds of that lifetime. "Time" might be perceived differently, but there are always, nevertheless, "sequences of events". Likewise, there is a "sequence" to our reincarnations... ;) In my view, our reincarnations are successive, and we progress morally and intelectually by what we learn and experience in each incarnation.

    Again I don't think so. Deja vu's occur when we encounter a situation, place, person, smell or taste that we instantly "recognise". This is because we have very probably encountered them in a "previous" existence... :thumbsup:


    Hi Groovy,


    I'm glad we've got that straightened out... :thumbsup: You posed some very good questions which I have been attempting to reply to within the best of my knowledge. You may think (or may have thought) that I am perhaps in some kind of "ego trip" in doing so, but I assure you that this is not so... I was born in Scotland but have lived in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, since the age of three. Brazil is a very mystical country, and I was given the opportunity to encounter situations which would be "unexplainable" to most, including my own "personal proofs" regarding reincarnation. I have been participating here on the Forum for so many years mainly due to a sincere desire to share what I have learned, but also to learn more from others... :thumbsup:

    Not exactly "cyclic" if this means "returning to the same original state", but "cyclic" meaning "returning to the Source from which we were created". WE are, if you like, the "Fallen Angels". We were created pure but in ignorance (as in the biblical symbology of Adam), and grow and progress spiritually, morally and intelectually through the learning-by-experience process of sequential reincarnations, rising to "Higher Realms" as we purify and perfect ourselves further.

    Again I beg to disagree. I am quite certain that, at the end of this present incarnation of mine, I will not be the same "essence/consciousness/personality" that I was after I disincarnated in my life as Bonnie Prince Charlie at the end of the 18th century. Seeing as I believe in "spiritual evolution", my belief is that in each lifetime we progress further, morally and intelectually. We may indeed perhaps even remain stationary, and not fully take advantage of the learning opportunities of each incarnation, but we never regress. This is another reason why I don not believe that it is possible to "reincarnate in the past".


    As Sunniva mentioned when she spoke of archaeology (sp?), the evidences of the "past" can be found in the "present", likewise the same occurs to us regarding our "Present Consciousness".


    Look forward to reading more... :thumbsup:
     
  23. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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  24. Groovy

    Groovy New Member

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    I wasn’t tempted to question your motives. I’m just grateful for your contribution to this discussion.

    Sorry for all the questions, but I think that I need to get a better sense of your views before commenting on them. If you will indulge me: What happens after our journey of sequential reincarnations is completed and we return to the source from which we were created?

    I was saying that, if the progress that we make in a typical incarnation is small, the progress that we make in two incarnations won’t constitute a quantum leap. This is somewhere between no growth and quantum leap growth, and definitely doesn’t amount to regression.


    It seems to me that the quantum leap objection is based on the assumption that soul fragments only reunite after death, rather than, say, during dreams and such.
     
  25. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hi Groovy,


    I didn't think I would be coming into the office today (don't have internet at home), but it ends up I had to :rolleyes:, so let's continue... :thumbsup:

    To the best of my knowledge, we co-participate more intensely in the "Universal Creation Process". We aid other Souls in their growth. We may even reincarnate in a "mission" (such as Jesus did). In your view, what would Jesus be doing now? I am quite certain he is not sitting on his throne enjoying all his glory. The Universe/God is never inactive. Certainly we do not reach this stage to sit on puffins upon the clouds... :)

    I understand your reasoning, but what I have shared here is largely based on "factual observations". There are several Spiritual Centers here in Brazil that work upon and study direct contacts with spirituality and spiritual entities. There is a consensus in spirituality that, although the Soul can indeed become bi-local (without, however, "splitting"), the reincarnatory process requires one physical body (at a time) for each Soul/Spirit. Why does this seem to be such a hard concept for you? Apparently, the intricately complex mechanisms that connect a Soul/Spirit to a physical body do not enable it to "animate" two or more physical bodies at the same time...
     
  26. Groovy

    Groovy New Member

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    It is because I see no point in sitting on puffins upon the clouds that I’m curious to discover where your model leads. :)


    - What do we do if and when all other souls have completed their growth?


    - Does the merger with the God-soul ever take place?

    I enquired about soul-splitting because several books that I’ve read endorsed the idea. Absence of soul-splitting is certainly a simpler concept. It’s not that I’m having a hard time understanding it, I just wanted to find out about the objections.
     
  27. Clivia

    Clivia Senior Registered

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    Hi Groovy


    the first time I came across the concept of simultaneous lives was after reading Michael Newtons books - I admit it's a bit hard to understand however i think it is possible the way it's explained in these books.


    A soul together with the guide might decide for simultaneous lives in order to learn specific lessons.


    You started the thread with a quantum physical question - how small or large a soul or soulfragments can be - imho we cannot measure a soul in physical terms not even in quantum physical terms


    Yes evrything in this material world is energy in various forms - however i think it is still a different and limited energy compared to the energy in the spiritual world - that is just an opinion off course - and i have no proof for that opinion


    Clivia
     
  28. Babalon_Jet

    Babalon_Jet Mr.

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    A major source of past-life confusion is not generally understood.


    Though most past life recalls are VALID, the great majority of them are probably not "your own" recalls.


    One's true identity and history is blurred by the fact that most "person's" comprise fusions of milions of beings (most of whom are in acomatose or sleeping state). Unless you know precision techniques for freeing such dormant beings from being in contact with you and your body, it is better to leave them alone and NOT waken them.


    Wakened (even to an extent) such beings can become the source of a variety of obsessive/compulsive behaviors.


    Let sleeping dogs lie!


    As for clarifying your past-life history, I advise a flash-answer technique......regarding any given past life recall, ask "Mine? Not Mine?" and accept the instant answer. Keep a brief record.


    Performed systematically over the full extent of your recalled incidents, this can be quite therapeutic.


    In fact - it can eliminate a major barrier to past life recall (the amnesia caused by "fogged identity").


    Happy trails to you!
     
  29. Ailish

    Ailish Administrator Emerita

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    Hi Babalon Jet,


    Welcome to the forum.

    I tend to disagree with that. I think that anyone who has experienced a true past life memory is able to differentiate between what is theirs and what is not.

    Could I ask you to expand on that? I am curious where you got that information from. Imo, the primary goal of past life work – is healing. To free ourselves from negative thoughts, emotions, behaviors and patterns that are "locked" within the physical, emotional and ethereal bodies.


    Dr. Roger Woolger states:

    You may be interested in reading the following threads:


    Deep Memory Process


    Can the soul heal from past life trauma and fear?


    Ailish
     
  30. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hi everyone,


    Hope you all had a great Xmas!!! :)


    Hi Groovy,

    In my view, the progress is as infinite as the Universe Itself, with myriads of "experiences" and learning in all the different realms. The "Process of Creation" is endless... I believe "New Souls" and "New Worlds" are being created all the time. Though to me, these "New Souls" start from a very primary initial stage. Nevertheless, they "sprout" just as those little flies "sprout" from an over-ripe banana...

    Yes, for sure, I do believe we eventually "attune" into the "Greater Consciousness", but without, however, ever losing our own "Individual Identity/Soul"... :thumbsup:


    "We are Light. We are IN the Light. But we are not "The Light" Itself..."


    Hi Babalon Jet,

    I would say: "One' true identity and history is not available to each Soul/Spirit in each incarnation to enable it to live a new life afresh, without the unnecessary sorrows and regrets from one's previous existences, which would very probably interfere with our learning-process needs in each incarnation. What good would it do to know, for example, that we may have murdered in a past life someone that we love very dearly in this one (or vice-versa)?


    The "fusion of millions of beings" is the "fusion" of the memories of all our past lives. The memory of who we "Truly Are". It is not a fusion of "different beings"... IMO :D ;) :cool : angel
     
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