What is the ultimate goal of all these reincarnations?

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by NickieCat, Aug 6, 2001.

  1. NickieCat

    NickieCat Guest

    One day, out of the blue, I got this idea that we reincarnate to reach the perfection of our soul. My question at the time was why, where does it lead to.

    I somewhat was led to a book (can't remember the name of it) which stated that the ultimate goal of reincarnation was to co-author the creation of the universe, since it is still unfinished and expanding.

    The idea of reincarnation was to become perfect to become a 'creative god' creating yet another universe and so on. One of the final test was the Christ-State which Jesus passed, whom by now should be creating his own universe.

    This has to lead to more than just merging with the infinite cosmic energy where bliss is expected.

    What would be your opinion?
     
  2. Lastearthling

    Lastearthling Senior Registered

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    I think that this sounds like as good of an answer as any.

    I have often wondered this question myself. Though, it almost doesn't make any sense...

    If God/The Supreme Being/Universal Creative Force/ Ultimate Creator is not bound by time, as has been suggested by many, than why would it matter that we would "evolve"? I mean, wouldn't we have already achieved this in a sense because it could all be perceived at one time by the Almighty? This also implies that our freewill is actual predestined.

    Also, if one factors in the point that the universe is constantly expanding, then this forces time to be a factor we would all be linked to; if something is expanding it has undergone a change- a change from one point when it was one size and then the next point when it became the larger size- so time has elapsed.

    Perhaps to be part of this universe all spiritual beings have to expand (increased knowledge?) which requires the creation of matter/energy- which will involve the transfer of energy to matter, which started from where? So to believe that the universe is expanding well, I think it just leads us to more questions. You know, who created God?

    Any other thoughts out there?
     
  3. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Hi Nickiecat,

    I enjoy your posts very much. Shouldn't the core question be WHO AM I? Basic I know - but your question does seem to lead back to that ---it's a Zen moment!

    It is a question that has fascinated humankind for thousands of years and yet we still do not have a definitive answer to the question. At times..don't we all feel alone?

    Our surroundings seem to dictate the answer and it is always changing. One era for example will give the answer in mechanical terms (we are biological machines). Another era will answer the question mystically (we are souls on a journey -- we are spirits). For millennia people have been asking this question and creating a "belief" about who they are and what their reality is.

    Then comes in reincarnation.

    Since we are so chained to the causality of Newtonian or classical physics, it is nearly impossible for most people to BELIEVE that inner and outer events might relate noncausally. An actual relation seems like no relation at all. Besides that there is the obstacle of the deeply held belief in the split between mind and matter.

    When we BELIEVE that the MIND is a self --a contained autonomous mental principle that gazes out upon the material world, we create alienation and isolation of subject, and alienation from nature. This creates the feeling of being alone.

    There is new research being done that suggests much more -----

    If our thoughts deduce matter, then it exists. If matter is not observed, then does it exist? Without getting into specifics -- Science now questions this very premise.

    If we are to "believe" -- to have a structure that contains our understanding of what is real, what is life, what and who am I - do we then FIRST CREATE? Do we create what we "believe" in?

    So my question is..what will you create in order to go where you believe you need to be?
     
  4. Bob

    Bob New Member

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    Dear NickieCat,

    I believe that no matter what experiences and realizations you have, there will always be more. It is in our very nature to create. God is always creating, because God is the creator. And so are we. We are always creating, whether we are here on Earth or not.

    It is also my experience that the freer I become, the more freedom I have to create whatever I choose to. So, the more you let go of all your restrictions, the more you can create on a scale beyond what you have created before.

    So it seems to me that your question now is what do I choose to become? And you can keep asking and anwering that question as many times as you would like to. EnJoy your becoming and your creating!!!


    Blessings,

    Bob
     
  5. fiziwig

    fiziwig moderator emeritus

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    There are a lot of different theories about this question. The major three are:

    1. We start out as "baby souls" who know nothing and must learn in order to advance and become higher and higher souls, eventually attaining perfection and either:
    a) merging with The Great Is, or God, or whatever you want to call the ultimate soul, or
    b) Setting off to create our own private universes in which each of us will be the creator/god of that universe.

    2. We all started out as all one big unified soul, but we split into seperate souls and now struggle to re-unite with the one great soul that we once were. This theory supposes that at some deep level we already know everything, and if that's the case we don't need to learn anything, but just to remember what we've forgotten.

    3. It's all just a big elaborate game. We incarnate for the same reason we read novels and go to movies. For fun, adventure and entertainment. This theory supposes that we are already supremely advanced, but choose to deliberately forget that while we are immersed in the game, because being supremely advanced is supremely boring, and knowing everything spoils the game.

    My own favorite theory is #3 since we see evidence everywhere that we are inherently and in our deepest nature, game players. Those born rich play social games where points are awarded for using the correct fork at a formal dinner. Others play the money accumulation game or the power game. And while a lot of people play games that they don't admit are games, still others play games that are admittedly just games, like football, chess, mountain climbing, etc.

    But no matter what our social or economic standing we all love to play games and share stories. (just look at how much everyone enjoys sharing their stories here!) So I believe that each incarnation is just another episode in a role-playing, story-telling game we are all playing together.
     
  6. Melusine

    Melusine Senior Registered

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    Hi All!

    I wonder why so many people across the various threads here seem to believe that we CHOOSE to reincarnate. Where does this assumption come from, other than making us feel good?

    My background being that of a slow- learning Buddhist, I'd tend to believe that choosing is the privilege of a few, very advanced souls. The rest of us just go thru the motions, wherever our guides send us, trying our best each time around, and hopefully growing a little here and there.

    Fizwig: Like you, I don't think that being an advanced soul means having experienced everything for the very reason that you mentioned: there is no end to experience and each experience is unique anyway. The "knowledge" which we are refering to here is qualitative, not quantitative. And it is spiritual, not scientific or artistic or anything else. I too, wonder what we do when we have attained perfection and helped all the others to attain it too - that was my initial question with this thread. But I suspect that the answer - or else the irrelevance of the question - lies in that understanding that we do not yet have, and goes together with reaching higher spiritual development.

    Charles: I like what you write. I see a strong longing for universal peace and compassion in your words. You mentioned those precepts that are so hard for us to learn: you shall not kill, not lie, not harm etc... these are pretty much the same across all religions. What is the Christian perspective on why we're constantly failing to follow them, and how are we supposed to "fix" that?

    A peaceful week to all,

    Mel
     
  7. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Hi,

    I believe that there are souls that choose life times.....but I have come to believe through my own experiences and in my research that most people are drawn like magnets to places, people and situations. They are NOT making conscious choices.

    The Tibetan Book of the Dead concerns itself with the possibility of dying consciously. These ancient Buddhist masters observed that there is a heightened intensity of consciousness when a soul moves from life to death and visa versa.

    By preparing the soul during life, to avoid and or heal negative thoughts, they were able at death, to not be pulled into a repetitive negative life cycle.

    In the seminal text called the Dhammapada, which means ‘The Way of Truth,’ the power of our thoughts is clearly stated:“All that we are is a result of what we have thought: it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts.

    India's ancient Buddhist text, the Bhagavad-gita it states :“Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail.”

    I have found it to be a personal truth. WHAT WE HOLD IN CONSCIOUSNESS AT THE TIME OF OUR DEATH, WE OURSELVES CREATE IN THE NEXT LIFE.
    We have the choice to make changes in the NOW in order to create consciously - next time

    My two cents.
    ------------------
    Deborah

    Finding my joy
     
  8. Melusine

    Melusine Senior Registered

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    Hi Deborah! and thank you for your 2 cents. Your references are those i am most familiar with, so I don't have much to add. What's your take on the ultimate goal of all this?

    Mel
     
  9. Majic

    Majic Senior Registered

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    I'm not sure if this is the ultimate goal, but it is THE goal of reincarnation (as I see it.)

    From years of reading and research here is my understanding of reincarnation. To me reincarnation means that we live successive lives for the purpose of leaning and reaching some sort of perfection - a perfection that will allow us to "graduate" from this Earth school.

    To me reincarnation is a law of the universe. It is something that happens whether we believe it or not. It is just how things work.

    Reincarnation also means we are totally responsible for everything that happens to us, be it good or bad. There is no blame, no excuses. We are never victims. There are no accidents.

    We preplan, alone or with the help of guides, the major events in our upcoming life. We choose parents that will halp us learn the lessons we have chosen to learn this time around. We choose and plan whether we will marry in a particular life. We choose how and when we will die - to be reborn back into the Spirit World.

    We have complete free will. Although we make these rough plans for a life, we have the freedom to change them as we go along. However, to achieve our preplanned purpose it is best to follow our plans as closely as possible.

    We stay on track my listening to our intuition and urges.

    Cause and effect is another law of the universe. This runs parallel to reincarnation. We call this law, "karma". What we sow we shall reap. (It is not a form of punishemt, but another learning experience.)Of course we still have free will to change our karma and learn at the same time.

    We are all a part of Spirit (or God). Being a part of Spirit makes us co-creators of the universe. We are in effect gods.

    Since we are totally responsible for our lives, there is no external God, out there, who will control us - give us favors or punish us. We are responsible and we create our own reality. We are not given "gifts". The "gifts" - abilities we are born with have been earned from previsous lives. That is why some people can play the piano at age 4.

    Prayer was another word for "intent". With intent we can create what we want. We have distorted intent by thinking that we can ask favors and be granted them. We have used prayer to place fault and ask for forgiveness. Intent is a sureness in visulization that will become reality.

    We can only forgive ourselves and others. We are in control.

    Reincarnation means respect. We respect every living thing on Earth, in the universe. Everything has a right to live and learn.

    Understanding responsibility and respect will lead us through incarnations at a rapid rate.


    Majic
     
  10. fiziwig

    fiziwig moderator emeritus

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    I really enjoy reading all the different opinions on the real purpose of reincarnation. But I guess I still haven't read anything that convinces me that incarnation is anything other than a role-playing game we super-advanced souls play primarily for entertainment.

    I can't help but notice that no matter what one wishes to dedicate one's life to there is invariably a score-keeping system by which one can rate one's performance. To those who dedicate their lives to accumulating wealth the only score card they pay attention to is the one kept by their accountants. To those who are playing the enlightenment game the only score card worth paying attention to is the one that keeps track of "wisdom" or "enlightenment" points.

    Clearly, this forum has a higher concentration of players of the enlightenment game than players of the fame game, the wealth game or the social standing game. And just as obviously, players of each game take their game very seriously and tend to think of it as more "real" or "important" than the other games.

    To the Wall Street broker living and working among his peers there is never any doubt that what they do is real and of utmost importance. Likewise, to the Buddhist monk living and working among his peers there is never any doubt that that what they do is real and of the utmost importance.

    What I find interesting is that observing the brokers at work and observing the monks at work reveals how very much alike they are in the way they play their respective games and in the way they measure performance and keep score.

    As a long-time student of Buddhism the most amusing thing I have observed in the community is that for the most part these people are more interested in "being Buddhist" than they are in "being Buddha."

    It's important to have the right mala, or beads, to buy the right meditation cushion and the have the best Buddha statues and burn the right incense and be thought well of by the right people in the group, and to impress others with name-dropping prominent lamas or teachers.

    It is the universality of score-keeping and game playing that leads me to believe that, ultimately, that's what it's all about, and that "spiritual growth" is just another game we can choose to play while we are here.
     
  11. wpnorman

    wpnorman Member

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    But what is the purpose of our being here?

    I have pondered lately that yes we are reincarnated but for what reason? I believe that we reincarnate in order to move to the next level so to speak but am curious if anyone has any ideas or beliefs about the purpose of our being?
     
  12. tiltjlp

    tiltjlp A Recycled Soul

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    I agree with your opinion, but think there are a lot of possibilities, based upon what kind of life we've just had, balanced with other PL issues. We might come back to learn a little more, so we can move to the next level. Or we might come back to resolve issues left over from our closest relationships.

    But one of the major reasons we came back, in my opinion, is to either help someone, or to teach others. I had a period of about 20 years, when I worked 3rd shift. My job brought me in contact with the same people nightly, and many of them sought me out for advice with some very serious problems. I was able to help every person, in some positive way, and often the help I provided was beyond my own ability or knowledge. I think we all can be used to help or guide others, given the right setting and circumstances.
     
  13. Hammy

    Hammy Senior Registered

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    "I have pondered lately that yes we are reincarnated but for what reason? I believe that we reincarnate in order to move to the next level so to speak but am curious if anyone has any ideas or beliefs about the purpose of our being?"

    Firstly, hi there :)

    I see your question in two parts, reincarnation and why? And why are we here? There is, I think, a very subtle difference.

    My personal beliefs regarding reincarnation are that its reasons are varied. It is about, I feel, learning, but what and how much and why, will vary from person to person. There is no one size fits all.
    Now that I have believed in it for a while, I can see my own personal reasons for being here start to become clear. But, like I said, my reasons, might not be anywhere near yours.

    As for the purpose of our being (why we are here?), I believe the following.
    To love. You do not have to be christian or a believer in God to love, I am both, but I have never subscribed to the believe or be dammed theories. But I do believe we all find God in the end, or that God finds us.
    Through love, true love, that holds no jealousy, that does not wish harm upon others, that does not seek only for itself, that looks for good and promotes only good, we find everything that love is and therefore everything that true life is.
    This to me makes sense of 'God is love'. It is the ultimate state of peace, happiness and harmony for all things.

    It is more than a pity though, that religions of all types have lost the way and seek for themselves, to save themselves, to speak for themselves under the banner of speaking for the god they believe in.

    How we attain true love, again, varies from person to person. I do firmly believe that we know when we are wrong and therefore not promoting love, but often we do not see.

    I hope this makes a bit of sense, I could write a lot more, but I would probably end up tieing us all in knots :laugh:

    That's my tuppence worth anyway.
    Hammy.
     
  14. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    You might enjoy the website Lucid Living. Timothy Freke has written three wonderful books. His website is also very informative.
     
  15. MATT

    MATT New Member

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    wpnorman

    I believe that there are various levels of answers to your question.

    We as a human race are here to learn about the energies that our soul is made of, to learn to create responsibly with our mind and emotions and to ultimately demonstrate to other parts of the cosmos what a love based race can accomplish. We are also here as caretakers and stewards of this planet


    Individually we as souls are each on a different stage of this journey and each incarnation has a unique purpose that is special to us alone . Hece a good reason for each of us to strive for soul and personalty alignment and discover the goal of our individual life.

    Some souls who have mastered the lessons of this planet often volunteer to come back and offer their help to others who may still be struggling with certain parts of their journey
     
  16. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    I hope you enjoyed the link above. I also remembered this cute story which I thought you might get a kick out of.

     
  17. Rod

    Rod Senior Registered

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    Perhaps it's an unpopular thought...

    ...but there is nothing to say that there IS a "higher" reason.

    We don't often ponder why gravity exists, nor why light exists, nor why energy exists. Instead we take them as "given" parts of the reality of the universe. There is no reason life is necessarily any different. Many processes are chain-reactions which sustain themselves until some quantity of matter or energy is consumed -- we may be just another of them.

    It should be noted, however, that this concept should not make our lives here and now any less meaningful. We are still able to improve the conditions in our world for the people around us, and we should. Whether or not a higher being put it in place does not change anything, as we can only affect the lives of those in our presence -- if there were an all-powerful, all-knowing "god" capable of creating the heavens and earth, nothing we do would be powerful to help or hinder his efforts, nor to educate him. The concept of "service to god", if properly implemented is really about "service to the world".

    ...Rod
     
  18. lonewolf

    lonewolf Senior Registered

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    I really like this post, Rod, even if I'm not sure I agree with it. The morality of "karma" in reincarnation troubles me, because there is the potential for saying that suffering is a punishment for past sins, and thus deserves no pity. At the same time, I find Christian concepts of eternal punishment and redemption on the basis of one lifetime unsatisfying and even repellent.

    There is a moral element somewhere, I feel sure. But the closest I can come to is the need to love unconditionally, people in particular and life in general. Also that there is a unity in life and consciousness. As soon as we begin to systematize and dogmatize, we run into all kinds of problems and, ironically, create evil (which I also believe exists).

    Perhaps you're right, though, that reincarnation is just something in the nature of consciousness/life/being--on the principle that energy is never lost--without moral purpose at least as humans would define it. I've never seen a human explanation for the morality of suffering that works.

    Lonewolf
     
  19. freewill

    freewill New Member

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    why do people reincarnate?

    Now, I have little problem with the belief in reincarnation. However, I think believing in reincarnation is just one single step. And there is more to know about it. The next step for me is to go about is to understand why we reincarnate, which I think is a more important and difficult question, as a realization of such can directly impact how we ought to live the rest of our lives.

    Inspired by Jung, I used to think that to reincarnate is to uncover and perfect our psyche, in other words, to be a full human being or boundless universe. However further pondering over this idea makes me think this meaning must be created by a conscious being (God, as you may call) who has wills, which I don't quite believe.


    Any ideas?
     
  20. Mama2HRB

    Mama2HRB Senior member

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    I think sometimes we reincarnate to spend more time with those we love, learning additional lessons in a new lifetime. I know Ron and I have had several lifetimes together, one as members of a local indian tribe, one as a well to do couple. I would come back again to be with him again.
     
  21. fiziwig

    fiziwig moderator emeritus

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    There are so many experiences that can only be had in physical incarnation. We don't incarnate to learn because we are already perfect beings. Instead, we voluntarily "forget" our perfection for the sake of the adventure of physical incarnation. Humans go to movies to be entertained, souls come to Earth for the same reason. I know a lot of people believe in some "high spiritual purpose" to it all, but under close examination those theories just don't hold water. Earth is our playground. Sometimes we come here for one kind of experience, like a light romantic comedy, and sometimes we come here for a different kind of experience like a horror movie. But since, just like movies, nothing can really harm that which is immortal in us there's no real danger in experiencing a horror movie now and then.

    Of course MY theory might be wrong too. The only completely honest answer is "I don't know." And anyone who pretends to be certain of the right answer is a fool.
     
  22. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith New Member

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    I don't think we're perfect to begin with. We reincarnate for the same reason we incarnated in the first place: to put ourselves into a new form of reality, to create events within it, and to experience them and come to know ourselves and others.

    In a sense, I don't even think "God" is perfect. We inherit from God the overwhelming need to create and experience which caused God to create all realities and us.
     
  23. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hi there,

    Well, to me we reincarnate as a means to learn and progress. We were created pure, but ignorant, and progress spiritually through successive incarnations, not only on this planet but on others too.

    I also believe in the perfection of a "Creator God" - a "Consciousness above all other consciousnesses". What we might consider as imperfect is solely due to our limited vision and capacity to fully comprehend the extension and perfection of "Creation".
     
  24. Majic

    Majic Senior Registered

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    I haven't been around much lately. I have expressed my opinion centered on this question over the years, and feel compelled to do it again.

    IMO, we are all Life Energy, all a part of creation, or all One, or collectively we are what people refer to as God. We have created this world (and others) collectively. We create our own reality individually in each life we choose to experience.

    We pre-plan major events in our incarnation to gain experience in our journey to some ultimate "perfection". We choose to incarnate with particular people in order to work out problems we have created in the past, or new situations we want to experience. We choose our environment, our family, our occupation, and our time and method of leaving this world.

    We are 100% responsible for what we do and what happens to us. Therefore there is no blame, and no reason for revenge. We are all in this together, and therefore we want to help each other to achieve their ultimate "perfection". When we, collectively, have reached this ultimate "perfection" (whatever that is) then there will be no need to incarnate on any planet again and we will move on to something else - that I have no reference to imagine.
    Majic
     
  25. Tinkerman

    Tinkerman Administrator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    When someone once asked "why I keep coming back?" to this forum, I could point to threads like this. This is a wonderful thread exploring the very questions I've always had.

    I do believe we return for the purpose of "growth" and learning. I suppose I could relate that to going to the movies, accept there is a passive connotation to that. I feel quite active and in direct relation to this life and incarnation. And I wonder if entertainment, in the current sense of the word, is a plausible cosmic event (maybe: angel ?!?).

    I also, whole heartedly, agree with those of you who say that it is foolish to proclaim anything with perfect certainty. We don't know is the only possible certainty. Every person's perspective is based on their vantage point. Kinda like the "stained glass theory" mentioned in other threads, the light (what ever It is) shines through us and around us...how we interpret it and how we observe it is a solitary event. For some like me..it is spiritual and sacred...numinous (a favorite word!). BUT the beauty of it all is that I welcome and savor the thoughts in the other regards as well. I found something in almost every post, that I felt relevant to my own beliefs. We're here to learn.

    Great thoughts for all souls on this journey, thanks.

    The Tinkerman
     
  26. freewill

    freewill New Member

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    One quick question,, do you guys believe that we have a "self"? Buddhism doesn't think so, though it doesn't deny that we have the core essence. Now the core essence of our consciousness is a really hard concept that I am still struggling to understand. I think our core essence is objective, peaceful and ultimately pure. When we are born, our core essence is covered by layers and layers of desires and emotions, and social norms etc etc, which delude us..

    Well it doesn't sound very straightforward..now let me put it in another way.

    everyone was pure and innocent in the beginning which dates back to the big bang, (maybe we were all one at that time) And then for some reasons , we became less pure, and the pure consciousness was fragmented and broken into different forms, which made it vulnerable to impurity and harm, Now our job is to rerealize the purity of our true essence.
     
  27. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith New Member

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    As I understand it, mainstream Buddhism (as opposed to Tibetan Buddhism) doesn't believe in reincarnation, per se. They believe that "mind reincarnates," i.e., somehow, thoughts have an eternal existence and come together to form new minds. What this means for this forum is that past life memories could come from several different people who died, but there's no core soul that reincarnates. So, studying past life memories is kind of pointless, since they come from many different random people. Karma is also pointless (or unjust) in this system since people can't be held accountable for acts performed by other random people.

    Tibetan Buddhism believes that certain masters (like the Dalai Lama) can reincarnate as a complete core soul. Occasionally a single person could reincarnate into several people (who represent aspects of their personality).

    I believe in a core soul with caveats. I think thoughts have an eternal existence and groupings of mental energy into souls also survive. What we think of as personality probably doesn't survive because so much of it is a response to life-events and these change (especially with changes in gender). On the other hand, I think every personality contains hints of all the past personalities the soul has had. I also think that future lives are "planned" to some extent --- the broad outlines are decided long before they occur (this is flexible, and plans can be changed even at the last minute). This would strongly contradict mainstream Buddhism.

    I also believe that one person reincarnating as several people is probably very common --- because the universe splits into all probably versions of itself. So, if you waver between moving to Buffalo or Cincinnati, one version of you moves to each city. The two version have different experiences and become different people (possibly different enough that they reincarnated differently, too).

    I've heard of cases where people in extreme old age suddenly remember things in their personal lives that couldn't have happened. For instance, if they were childless, they may remember having three children, know their names, and how they grew up. All in a time-frame that coincides with their current life. Perhaps, when their focus on physical reality weakens, memories of other probable lives become available.
     
  28. fiziwig

    fiziwig moderator emeritus

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    That reminds me of another of my favorite theories of reincarnation. We reincarnation forward, backwards and sideways through time. Our "next" life might be in ancient Rome and our "previous" life might have been as a star ship pilot in 2517 AD.

    But what it comes down to is simply this: There is only one soul. You, me, our friends and family, the people you work with, we are all one and the same single soul, reincarnating every which way through time. We are, in other words, God, and there is only one of us. The only way we can have the experience of sharing lives with "other" people is to keep zipping back and forth in time and hanging out with other incarnations of the one single soul that we really are.

    Justice is perfect because every perpetrator of evil will, in "time", be every one of his victims. And all of them, the good, the bad, and the ugly, are really just me (and you, and your cousin Sue and your uncle Fred, and ...)

    One soul. One consciousness. One electron in all creation (which we call a positron when it travels backwards in time.)All electrons look exactly alike because there's only one of them. All souls look alike because there's only one of them. One. That's all there is.

    In the beginning was the singularity, and the singularity is all there ever will be.

    As a side effect that famous controversy about there not being enough souls in the past to account for the souls alive today just goes away. There was never any more than one soul, weaving a tangled skein of life-lines with the big bang at it's core and the event horizon of the universe as its outer frontier.
     
  29. Goldenage

    Goldenage Senior Registered

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    circles within circles, why give it away?


    Fiziwig


    There is an element of truth in your suggestion that boredom is the motivator for initially descending into the world of name and form but it is a descent from “perfection of being (absolute purity)” not a descent from being that knows all of everything but rather merely a descent from the potential to know all of everything. Consciousness, or, the capacity of consciousness to be expressed, is in itself not its own source. The source thereof, is quite beyond consciousness and as such cannot be “known” as that which is known is already a product of consciousness…..


    Once consciousness is entered the entry point assumes “responsibility” for what follows, forgets its non-existent source, and, in ignorance (error), becomes bound up in the potentially limitless cycle of birth and death. It is only when this cycling entity is enabled to (once again)“work out the rules” governing this almost obligate endless process of iteration that “enlightenment” dawns. At that very instance is the active principle (again) plunged directly into the profound beyond consciousness itself, the source which, promptly strips-out all garnered experience and expands thereby (in a continuing state of purity). Situation repeats, nothing is lost. The Divine simply “knows all that it is” (but outside the region of consciousness) and we are merely the elements of consciousness (although collectively being one only), that through boredom have chosen to deliver the goods back to source.


    When I first realized that I occupied a state quite beyond the experiences of the cycling entity - the instances experienced by the reincarnating entity, when I appreciated the eons expressed in the time-frame involved (forwards, backwards, sideways etc as you, Fiziwig say) - I was appalled and asked myself why I had ever left the security of one Being alone, I then realized immediately that it was all a self-test. I had simply been overwhelmed by curiosity, I merely wanted to see if I could return to the unitary state of being-consciousness-bliss. By then asking “where-from the state of being, consciousness, bliss” I was then catapulted into the profound of no-thing-ness, the region quite beyond consciousness as such ...


    (go to the beginning of the above account and start building experience again - why not? The experience involved in expanding the god-head will once again be most meaningful to say the least…..:angel:
     

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