A question of dimensions

Like others on this Forum, I have read articles and viewed videos explaining the concept of higher dimensions beyond the three-dimensional world we presently occupy. Carl Sagan in one of his videos explained how a person in a two-dimensional world would view one of our three-dimensional shapes as it passes through their world. By taking this concept and applying it to how we would perceive a four-dimensional shape passing through our world, Sagan began to explain how perceptions would change for us as we progress through ascending levels of dimension up to the 10th or 11th dimension.

This concept assumes that there are more dimensions that are populated by intelligent beings of some sort. And many writers have proposed that the spirit world exists upon one of these higher dimensions, where there is no time or space; thus, no cause and effect.

However, I find myself balking at these concepts on one level of reasoning. If we suppose, for example, that we all reincarnate after a period of our time in the spirit world for whatever reason; why would so many reports of the spirit world appear to be in a three-dimensional frame of reference? Of course, it is understood that we would probably have a different shape and substance, but everything is still described in three-dimensional terms that we still understand in this world. Being void of time and space the spirit world would no longer be perceived as we are conditioned to perceive. There would be no cause and effect, and there would be no difference between right and wrong.

If our spirits can perceive communication with other spirits, as well as warmth and light, wouldn't there be some form of time and space? If the next dimension or spirit world is so different than our earth-bound three-dimensional world, why wouldn't our perceptions of that world bleed through into our present consciousness here on earth? After all, so many other perceptions of the spirit world have managed to get through without much confusion. And what would the purpose be of living in a fourth-dimension, or in a world where there is no time or space?

-Nightrain

Hi Nightrain,


I have so often come across so many very intelligently and well thought out theories that, upon a bit more careful observation, simply hold absolutely no foundation on the "truth". What astounds me is with just quite how many follow and accept such concepts without questioning and yet so often disregard the obvious...


A literary agent who turned down my manuscript claiming it was "too simplistic" was/is a great fan of the "Seth Speaks" series, and considers the author a genius, but from all I have heard about it there is absolutely nothing I could pinpoint as having any relationship to that which appears as real, and the author, Jane, apparently took her own life. I mean, do people even know who Seth was and symbolised?


As to the topic in question, I honestly could not say if the Spiritual Realms are in a different "dimension" or simply that they consist of a form of matter that is still unknown and undetectable to us. Given the inter-connection that seems to occur between the two, I would tend towards the latter...


:thumbsup:

Just speaking for myself, so feel free to disagree.


I think it is a huge mistake to believe that we have the ability to describe that for which we have no words. Our minds probably can't comprehend the spiritual world or other dimensions, if indeed we exist on other dimensions. The claims by mediums, as Charles suggested, can not be trusted - instead we pick and choose which ever medium makes us feel good and find in their message some sort of "truths" that we can hold onto. It is the same with NDE reports - out of many thousands, pick something that sounds good and base your faith on that.


Everything that we hear or read is based on the perception of the human mind. There may be some bits of truth in a lot of what we hear about or read, but you have to be able to discern the difference between what is probably fact and what is probably human imagination - this includes popular science shows and reading material. Most everything is speculation, but not necessarily false or phony. I am quite sure that the human mind will report the "truth" but in a way that it can comprehend and in doing so, get things a little or completely wrong.


I would like to be a mad scientist for a while and take the NDEr reports and put them in flask and then pour in the mediumnistic and channeling stuff and light a fire under them. I would cook them until a few drops of pure distillate formed and then I would say those droplets "might" contain some truth about the nature of reality.


I don't want to seem as though I am picking on any one group of people because I, like everyone else, do find them at least interesting. I am an NDEr myself, but I don't claim that my experience is anything other than a personal experience. I really feel that the truth lies within each of us and that there is no easy way to get at it - as much as we would like there to be. When we can't turn inward or haven't yet begun that personal journey, we can rightly seek the experiences and thoughts of others to start to build a framework of our own understanding. It is important to share and discuss our thoughts, experience and knowledge but ultimately there is no other way to understand the world of spirit than to find it within ourselves. If it was easy we wouldn't have a need to talk about it.


We do not have the ability to describe the spirit world in terms other than what we understand. And so we falsely give the "other side" the attributes that we can understand. It may be that when we pass over, the reality that we experience is of our own making to some degree or is what we expect to see. It could be that for many souls making the transition, there will have to be a period of adjustment before they can continue on and experience the reality which they have forgotten about. Just speculating here, myself.

Recomended reading


The all-time best help (for me) to visualize what a higher dimension would be like: Edwin A. Abbott's classic Flatland.


It's a bit sexist and stilted because it was written during the Victorian era, but it's still a magical flight of the imagination.:angel:

Higher dimensions can be easily manipulated mathematically, but that doesn't necessarily mean they actually exist. Or they may exist, but be very small in extent. Imagine living in a world that you think is two-dimensional, but it turns out it is infinitely large in two dimension, but only one millimeter thick in the third dimension. Could you necessarily detect that third dimension?


Suppose our own universe were infinitely large in three dimensions but only one millimeter thick in the fourth and fifth dimensions. Those fourth and fifth dimensions would really matter to electrons and protons, but no so much to planets and stars.


Personally, I think "dimensions" when we are talking about, for example, the "higher dimensions" of the spiritual plane is just a metaphor for talking about something that is not really a dimension in physical reality, but exists totally outside of physical reality. For example, suppose you are playing an online role playing game like Everquest, or World of Warcraft. You move your character around in a three dimensional virtual world, but you can't say that the real world is in a higher dimension of the game world. The three-dimensional game world and the three-dimensional real world are completely separate. You can't physically walk from your room into the Warcraft world, and you can't walk your Warcraft character out of the Warcraft world and into the real world. The two realities do not share the same space.


Reality is not found deep inside hidden dimensions of the World of Warcraft world. Physical reality is found in a wholly different place than the World of Warcraft world. By the same token, the world of the spiritual plane is not found deep inside hidden dimensions of the physical world. The world of the spiritual realm is found wholly outside of physical reality. It has to be. The spiritual realm is NOT physical. It has it's own laws of nature which are not the laws of physical nature. It's not part of the physical world in any way.


So we should be careful when using the phrase "higher dimensions". It doesn't mean anything like what most people think it means.

"Seth" speaks of himself as an energy "personality essence" no longer in physical form....


Jane Roberts was a gifted author, writer of short stories, childrens books and poetry. She was also wrote of Seth for 21 years and sold 7.5 million books. She was psychic and a channeler..


She constantly questioned her ability and the source of her creativity....She had herself tested several times but I would have to look up where. I have a collection of her books.


At the time that she wrote this material it was met with doubt as people were not open to what Seth wrote. You people on this board talk quite openly on topics Seth spoke of about dimensions and souls etc. Jane really did not benefit financially very much because by the time they sold a lot she was quite ill with Throid problems and terrible arthritis. She died in the hospital in 1984. She DID NOT kill herself. She actually was hospitalized for months before her death with auto immune disease ... Even after death she was criticized for not listening to Seth and healing herself. If you have been raised in as conservative home as Jane was it is not easy to believe you have that power. You have been programed since birth ....to except the natural cycle of birth and death....


These are very fascinating reading...especially


"Seth Speaks" and the "Seth Material"

Florence said:

"Seth" speaks of himself as an energy "personality essence" no longer in physical form....
Jane Roberts was a gifted author, writer of short stories, childrens books and poetry. She was also wrote of Seth for 21 years and sold 7.5 million books. She was psychic and a channeler..


...

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I read the Seth materials years ago, when they first came out. I was very impressed with what she/he had to say.

My apologies then, Florence, for I misunderstood what the agent said. He said she had taken an "early demise" and then concluded by saying: "Stupid girl...", and I completely misunderstood what he was saying. I really do not know much about her work, but what I have heard has never impressed me very much.


Fiziwig, let's go through the following:


Personally I do not doubt the possibility of the existence of other dimensions or even other universes in the hyper-universe. My point is that our known "spiritual universe" does not lie in them (in other universes, I mean), and my reasoning for this is the interaction that can and does take place between them.


From my own personal experience in the one and only regression I have ever done, I "saw" and "felt" myself floating weightlessly upwards after death. No "tunnel of light" in my regression, but I believe this may have come shortly afterwards.


It is said in the spiritualist circles (and by "spiritualist circles" I am referring to those who take part in the spiritualist centres here in Brazil that work with mediumnity), that the next realm or "dimension" that we can encounter (apart from the four we know, the 4th being "time") is the one densest in "matter" and closest to the physical realm. Some would refer to it as "hell". This would be the 5th realm. The one in which those most attached to the more "physical realm" usually find themselves "stuck" in.


The 6th realm or dimension is the one often referred to as "purgatory", the one in which the doctor in Chico Xavier's story found himself in for a time after having disincarnated. The 7th is the one we most usually find ourselves in. The one I was mentioning as consisting of various "spiritual colonies" not unlike our own cities, with houses, parks, temples, nurseries and even "hospitals". The 8th & 9th, independent of what terminology you might wish to use for them, would correspond to the "higher realms". Those with the least "density" and which some would refer to as "Nirvana" or "Heaven".


After reading some replies, I'll continue...


:thumbsup:

Charles Stuart said:

Fiziwig, let's go through the following:


Personally I do not doubt the possibility of the existence of other dimensions or even other universes in the hyper-universe. My point is that our known "spiritual universe" does not lie in them (in other universes, I mean), and my reasoning for this is the interaction that can and does take place between them.


From my own personal experience in the one and only regression I have ever done, I "saw" and "felt" myself floating weightlessly upwards after death. No "tunnel of light" in my regression, but I believe this may have come shortly afterwards.


It is said in the spiritualist circles (and by "spiritualist circles" I am referring to those who take part in the spiritualist centres here in Brazil that work with mediumnity), that the next realm or "dimension" that we can encounter (apart from the four we know, the 4th being "time") is the one densest in "matter" and closest to the physical realm. Some would refer to it as "hell". This would be the 5th realm. The one in which those most attached to the more "physical realm" usually find themselves "stuck" in.


....

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The problem I have with those descriptions is they use "dimensions" in a way that demonstrates absolutely NO knowledge of the physical and mathematical properties of higher dimensions. They are very much the words of naive laymen using words they don't understand. That's one of the reasons why the whole field of psychic research gets no respect whatsoever from serious scientists. It's just too blatantly obvious to any scientist that these people don't understand the first thing about the scientific terms they throw around so casually.


I believe that serious science throws out the baby with the bath water by ignoring the very real psychic and spiritual phenomena that deserve serious investigation. But the blame for that lies, at least in part, on the shoulders of the self-proclaimed spiritual "experts" who borrow the scientist's words, but mangle them into something the real scientist finds repugnant.


I'm just doing my little part to try to inform people who would like to see spiritual phenomena taken seriously by real scientists, that they will have to stop using the manners of the carnival show con artist, and stop insulting the real scientists by saying that they, the mediums, know EVERYTHING (100% correct) while the stupid scientists know NOTHING. Serious research means to stop hyping as "certainty" for flimsy theories that are nothing more than somebody's wild pipe dreams.


It's fine for somebody to have their own religious faith, but when faith starts pretending to be science, that's when real science laughs at faith. Faith should be called faith. Science needs to be skeptical, tentative, experimental, not gullible of the claims of one religious faith or another.


If someone says to me "My religious faith says _______." Then I'll say fine. That's a matter of faith and I can't argue it with you. But if someone says to me "Your science is wrong BECAUSE my religious faith says _______." Then you have stepped on the toes of science and insulted the entire scientific process. That's what happened when the church arrested Galileo for pointing his telescope at the sky, or when the fundamentalists try to put their particular creation myth into a school science textbook. To a scientist, that is an abomination.


I think part of the problem you and I have communicating is that you are talking about your religious faith and I am talking about my scientific process. We are not even talking about the same basic subject matter. It's as if I'm talking Algebra and you're talking The Literature of Shakespeare. Both worthwhile things to discuss, but if we make the mistake of thinking we are talking about the same subject, then we will just go on being confused by each other's positions.

Maybe the problem lies in the fact that there are no words in language to describe things of the spirit. People try to explain with words they believe others can understand


Some day science will discover these spaces, where ever they exist and then Spiritual people will say....Yes, that's what I was talking about. I do believe it WILL one day all come together


BTW Kardec, Cayce and Seth all agree on the after life that there are several places that people go depending on their own belief system. There is a Heaven and a Hell that people may visit. I say visit because people don't stay in Hell long. They call out to God and are released. People who are in Heaven are more difficult to move on into the places where they have guides to help them discuss past and future lives. If you strongly believe you will sleep until judgement day....you might. Most people go where they are supposed to and greet those they have loved and spent many lifetimes with


what is in your mind is the most important thing.....Cayce kept saying "The mind is the builder" Seth is very clear on that also.


Seth also says that if you stop and check what your mind is thinking a number of times over a month or two....you can know what your next life will be like. You attract what you think so think positive so you won't be stuck in the wrong dimension, space, floor, station, ether ???


I wrote in another thread that I went to the Inner Planes??? All I know is that I plainly went somewhere....I just can't tell you where it was located....

Hi Florence,


Francisco Xavier:
http://www.reincarnationforum.com/threads/questions-about-pre-planning.639/page-2#post-13466


Fiziwig, from the top ot the pillars of science, why are you so categorical in accepting the existence of other dimensions but not that they should be as I have shared? Just curious...

But Charles, I am taught that you are drawn to what your mind is attracted to.

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Quite so, Florence. Apparently it has to do with "thought vibration levels". But if you disincarnate and see Jesus (a rare priviledge), for instance, it is not because your own thoughts "created" his appearance. "Consciousness creates" does not mean we are the "sole creators" of the "realities" that surround us and which we find ourselves in, don't you think?

4th Dimension


Hi Nightrain


Since my father died earlier this year, I've become very interested in where we go to when we die. Taking together some things that I've read and information on Dr Bruce Goldberg's website, I believe that we go to the 4th dimension after death. I think there are 12 or 13 dimensions and each dimension is divided into 12 overtones. It seems that the 4th dimension is divided up like this: 1st and 2nd overtones = lower astral plane; 3rd and 4th overtones = middle astral plane; 5th and 6th= middle/upper astral plane; 7th and 8th = upper astral. 9th = etheric plane, 10th = mental plane, 11th = causal plane, 12th = soul plane (I may have got 2 of them the wrong way round, like the mental plane and the causal plane, not sure). "Purgatory" or whatever you want to call it, is the lower astral planes of the 4th dimension. I don't believe there is a "Hell", but these lower planes of the 4th dimension are the lowest vibration. Then you may think that here, the 3rd dimensional Earth, is a lower vibration. It seems that the overtones of each dimension overlap, so in these lower planes someone could be at a lower vibational level than we are living in here. Someone could go to these lower vibrations when they die, if their state of mind at the time of death was primarily of extreme anger, fear and other extreme negativity. Shortly after my Dad died, I had a psychic reading and was told that he had gone to the middle level (i.e. of the 4th D), and that he would stay there about 6 months, before progressing. This is the part of the afterlife in which everything looks much the same as it does here, although hopefully not as depressing (looking out of the window at the weather as I type this). According to the Mayan Prophecy, Earth is ascending through the 4th dimension; here it says that "earth may already be in the 4th or 5th density but being holographically held in 3D while life adapts to the frequencies".


Dimensions are polarised as far as I know: the 3rd is male and the 4th is female. I think that what we know as "heaven" is the 5th dimension. If we never reincarnate again then I suppose we ascend up the dimensions, growing more spiritually advanced.


It could be that the tunnel is part of the lower 4th dimension. About 6 weeks before my Dad had his fall, I was awoken early one morning by him yelling (he had dementia) that he was being pulled backwards through a tunnel with a bright light at the end. I've read other accounts of going through it backwards, one of which is in the book "Past Lives Future Lives" by Jenny Cockell.

forgot....


We reincarnate from the 4th Dimension, not the 5th

I think that everything we know, or think we know, is based entirely upon the human/physical experience. Scientists go forward from this point, just as mediums and psychics do. We are all living in Flatland. What bothers me about scientists is that too many of them refuse to consider that while we are physical beings, we do not necessarily live in an entirely physical world. Everything cannot be proven or explained by man's science. That's ok, I guess. Their role in life is to work within the physical domain - but there really are no atheists in foxholes, and scientists are no different than any other human being.


My father was a physicist and a staunch Catholic... yet he thought that anything psychic-related was nonsense. It wasn't until the last few years of his life that he seriously began to question his own belief system - or to understand that the whole science/organized religion thing was a conundrum.


I'll never forget the Christmas a couple years before he died, when he gave all of his children a book called: "God - the Evidence."


Re: Jane Robert and Seth. I love her books and I'm confident that they were intended for exactly the audience that actually read them.

For the purposes of simplicity I deal with two dimensions.


Think of a two floor house.


Downstairs : we live downstairs.


Upstairs : we head upstairs on death.


All the child reincarnation stories suggest that the soul heads upwards on death.


I remember some stories of children remembering dropping out of a port hole into their new body, but I am unable to remember if that is a downward motion.

I don't want to be negative, but maybe I can be pedantic...

AJones said:

All the child reincarnation stories suggest that the soul heads upwards on death.

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All of them, are you sure?

I remember some stories of children remembering dropping out of a port hole into their new body, but I am unable to remember if that is a downward motion.

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in which direction do things usually drop?

Talking of dimensions, a major contender in physics for a possible 'Theory of Everything' is something called 'M-Theory', which requires the universe to have 11 dimensions, and in principle can explain the major stumbling blocks of current theories (Quantum Mechanics & Einstein's General Relativity) that don't quite mesh together in extreme circumstances.


M-Theory is a generalisation of String Theory, where fundamental particles are modelled as tiny one-dimensional vibrating strings (almost a musical metaphor). This isn't yet strictly a 'theory' in the scientific sense, as it hasn't yet any supporting experimental evidence, and for the most part, its predictions are currently beyond the ability of today's technology to test - but the maths, though complicated, works well.


Unfortunately, the extra 7 dimensions that it requires have not been observed, so it finds itself in the embarrassing position of trying to account for the observed absence of one of its main predictions. If it really is a valid way of modelling the universe, these dimensions must be curled up so small that we just can't see them (like a 3D Flatland where the height dimension is so small that the inhabitants don't notice it). This makes the idea of 'Twilight Zone'-style alternate dimensions occupied by parallel worlds of people unsustainable - although having tiny undetectable dimensions does help explain a lot of other physics problems, like why gravity is such a weak force compared to the other known forces.

The whole universe and "aLL that is" consists of vibrations...Everything that is solid like the Earth and people are matter and vibrate at a lower frequency...The other is anything that is not solid, weighs nothing and takes up no space is energy. Energy can be measured by frequency as well


It has been proven that the faster a wheel is spun, the higher the vibration is created and eventually the wheel will seem to disappear.


If there are other planes of existance I assume that they consist of....an energy which takes up no physical space. So the higher planes, which cannot be seen, must be vibrating at a much higher frequency. I also assume that each plane vibrates higher than the last. If I can increase my own frequency then I will arrive at a higher plane in the after life.


There are many many frequencies higher and lower than the human ear can identify...it is endless


Science proves it. One day Spirit and Science will be one...

Florence -- I've heard that the Earth's natural frequency, the Schumann resonance, has recently dramatically increased ...

Hello Jody.....It's good to hear from you. Well my dear, if that is true then we definetely are on our way to a higher plane. So is that the plan??? The frequency will raise soo high we will all disappear and become spirits....grin.....maybe on that day when a special few are to be taken.....It will be a party because were ALL going....ha ha From my mouth to God's ear....

Florence said:

The whole universe and "aLL that is" consists of vibrations...Everything that is solid like the Earth and people are matter and vibrate at a lower frequency...

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That's not really what current science says. Many frequencies of vibration of many kinds occur in matter, and many frequencies of oscillation occur in various aspects non-material things. There aren't really any 'overall' vibration frequencies to compare - unless you have some particular vibration in mind?

The other is anything that is not solid, weighs nothing and takes up no space is energy. Energy can be measured by frequency as well

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According to Einstein, matter is energy - the famous E=mc2 says mass times the speed of light squared is energy. The speed of light is a big number, so squaring it and multiplying by the mass gives a huge value for amount of energy - the atomic bomb & nuclear power are the practical demonstration of this. Matter is effectively highly concentrated energy.


But energy isn't measured by frequency - energy is just the ability to do physical work, it's measured in joules (or kilowatt-hours or kilocalories), as seen on your gas or electricity bill. Energy and frequency are related though - the higher the frequency of some vibration, the more energy the vibrating object has.

It has been proven that the faster a wheel is spun, the higher the vibration is created and eventually the wheel will seem to disappear.

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This really isn't the case. Ultra high speed rotations are used regularly in science and engineering, and while surface detail may blur with speed, the wheels themselves don't disappear - they might disintegrate under the stress, but other than that they won't disappear...

There are many many frequencies higher and lower than the human ear can identify...it is endless
Science proves it.

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There are ultrasound waves and infrasound waves that have higher and lower frequency respectively than audible sound, but they are all just pressure waves in the air, usually caused by vibrating objects (mechanical oscillation).


A vibration is simply physical movement (to/fro, up/down, in/out, etc). Frequency is the number of such movements per second. Higher vibration or higher frequency just means more physical movements per second.


On the other hand - it just occurred to me that you may be using the words 'energy', 'vibration', and 'frequency' to mean something different from their usual dictionary or physics meaning, in which case, everything I said above doesn't apply...


If you are using different meanings, please explain what they are, because the standard meanings don't work the way you used them above, and I only know the standard meanings.

One day Spirit and Science will be one...

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I hope so, it will make things so much clearer.

Jody said:

Florence -- I've heard that the Earth's natural frequency, the Schumann resonance, has recently dramatically increased ...

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Interesting, it says Schumann Resonance is the name for occasional standing waves in Earth's electromagnetic field:

Like waves on a spring, they are not present all the time, but have to be 'excited' to be observed. They seem to be related to electrical activity in the atmosphere, particularly during times of intense lightning activity.

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It also says it's a sensitive indicator of temperature variations and worldwide weather conditions, so maybe it's showing the effects of global warming?

Hi....Thanksgiving holiday in America and I was very busy in a battle with a 22 pound turkey...and Pumpkin pies....our tradition....It turned out great!!


Back to our discusion. I'm saying that everything in this Universe and everywhere else Vibrates...


Energy is measured by it's frequency which means it's rate of vibration.


Radios ...Tv's have a frequency modulation...On FM radio it's 88 - 108. The higher the number the faster the frequency or vibration....Energy does vibrate....Light vibrates ...It is perceived as energy but energy IS vibration.


The sounds coming out of bats, birds and elephants are either vibrating so high and fast or so low and slow....we humans cannot hear them


Matter vibrates and Atomic clocks are calibrated to the consistant frequency ( or vibration ) of certain atoms. All matter is made of atoms and all atoms vibrate.....each to their own particular fequency.


So....Energy vibrates....Matter or mass vibrates....Our Universe vibrates...ALL is vibration


I spoke of the wheel becoming invisable or seeming to become invisable. I had read that in a article published by The Leading Edge....


I personally have had several experiences of being told that during meditations in a group....I was becoming invisable. I said "Phooey" but it happened again. A group of about 12 people said it was true including my close friend who was sitting right beside me. I believe I am able to create a lot of white light around myself during my meditations and that may be why I would SEEM to disappear. I must be raising my energy field to a higher frequency (vibration) I can often feel myself vibrate at that time. When I had the experience of going out the top of my head to another plane ?? I was feeling the vibration at the top of my head.....Very iteresting indeed.


It's possible that is why I have on a number of occassions I have been able to see spirits in the astral plane. Remember those things always happened after I had been back meditating every.


day....I do believe that spirits just vibrate on a higher and faster frequency.

Florence said:

Hi....Thanksgiving holiday in America and I was very busy in a battle with a 22 pound turkey...and Pumpkin pies....our tradition....It turned out great!!

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I hope you won the battle!

Energy is measured by it's frequency which means it's rate of vibration.

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No, really, the measurement unit of energy is a joule, not a frequency. A joule is roughly the amount of energy (or work, or effort) it takes to lift, for example, a small apple.


There are different forms of energy; sound energy involves vibration, and thermal (heat) energy can involve vibration, but the other forms of energy don't, in general, involve vibration. Check out the Wikipedia energy link.

Talking of frequencies, it would be interesting to investigate "alpha brainwave frequencies", for it seems to be at this more "relaxed" brain frequency that past life memories emerge during hypnotic regressions, as well as the altered state in meditation and also, I believe, the frequency at which spiritual mediumnic intercommunications take place.


I recently watched a program about Stonehenge in which the theory was being put forward that the purpose of the circular stones was to create a ressonance for the drums that were used during the ritualistic ceremonies, precisely to create the trance in which the participants believed to be "communicating with spirits".


From personal experience, I can tell you that the ritualistic ceremonies in the sessions held here in Brazil of the religious lines of African origin known as Candomblé and Umbanda also use drums precisely with this purpose. For twelve years I took part in one such spiritual center, six of which working as a medium. What I can also tell you is that, prior to mediumnic incorporations, there is definitely a "vibration" to the phenomenon, by which I could usually identify which spiritual entity/guide was about to incorporate by the difference in vibrations between each one, usually upon the top and back of my head and upon my shoulders...


Hope we are not all sounding too crazy for you, Dlorde...

Florence said:

I personally have had several experiences of being told that during meditations in a group....I was becoming invisable. I said "Phooey" but it happened again. A group of about 12 people said it was true including my close friend who was sitting right beside me. I believe I am able to create a lot of white light around myself during my meditations and that may be why I would SEEM to disappear. I must be raising my energy field to a higher frequency (vibration) I can often feel myself vibrate at that time. When I had the experience of going out the top of my head to another plane ?? I was feeling the vibration at the top of my head.....Very iteresting indeed.

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It's so interesting to read about your experience because the same thing happened to me over 30 years ago when I was participating in a psychic awareness class! I've never heard of anyone else disappearing but I can confirm that the same thing happened to me in a class of about 6-8 people. I actually heard them [collectively] gasp when it happened but I do not remember feeling any vibrations.


I agree that we're all sharing the same "space" but at different vibrational rates, for lack of a better term. If you are a Star Trek fan, you have probably seen the episode where Kirk drinks the liquid that speeds up his vibration, then discovers that the annoying buzzing sound he was hearing beforehand was actually humans speaking to him from a higher frequency. He can still see and hear the crew members he left behind, and they appear to be moving very slowly from his new vibration point - but they cannot perceive him. I've always thought that this was a great illustration of what's really going on in our existence.


Shadow figures and ghosts seem to have the ability to move very, very rapidly - or is that simply how we perceive them? Maybe they're in a dimension where they're moving at normal speed?


Interesting stuff.

Hi Hannah..


Oh how wonderful that you have experienced the same thing of becoming what appears to e invisable. I know it sounds goofy but everyone said it was true. My good friend wa not really into psychics etc. and he was wide eyed when he said I really did fade away right before his eyes. I didn't feel any different at that time.


I used to attend meditation classes for about 3 years. One day my instructor asked us all to meditate and send love to the people on each side of us. I was doing very well with the exercise when the Instructor walked up and said "not so much white light Florence" Immediately my light dimmed and I became very annoyed because I could not get it back to that strength again.


I think ghosts move very quickly because in the higher plane that they are in, which would be invisable gases, everything vibrates at a much faster rate. To hear any speech that sounds more normal to us a spirit would have to slow down it's rate of vibration since most of us cannot raise ours to that higher level

Hi Florence,


Apparently this is also due to the lesser density of the Spiritual Realms. Science has estimated the possibility of there being 11 dimensions. In Umbanda it is said that here are nine. Those in the Higher Realms can descend. Those in the Lower Realms cannot ascend. It is said that Jesus had to go through a very long process in order to be able to diminish his vibrational level to one by which he might incarnate in the Physical Realms. The expression "being in 7th Heaven" has more truth to it than one might at first suppose... :thumbsup:

Charles Stuart said:

Hope we are not all sounding too crazy for you, Dlorde...

Click to expand...

Don't worry, There's plenty of good science that is counter-intuitive and sounds crazy at first.


I'm just trying to help keep the science detail on the rails. Amid all the uncertainties and speculation, it's wise to be correct with the stuff that is known for sure.

Hello again my friend Dlorde...Well.I went to your suggested site like you asked me to do and I read many of the articles on that page. Then...I went to google once more and asked for a description of the raw energy in the Universe.


Here is what I found....


There are 3 states of matter...solids...liquids...and gases


Solids...molecules are tightly packed yet still moving. They bounce off each other at a slow rate There is a slight hum....This is vibration


Liquids,,,The molecules are more spread out and are moving faster. The sound of liquids are a much higher frequency than that of solids


Gases... Gases have the highest frequency. Many gases are invisible and the particles are moving at a very high frequency.


Everything in the Universe is energy.


Everything in the Universe exists in vibration.


Vibration is the process of harmonization and without it the Universe would collapse in on itself


http://unfoldingdestiny.com/the-science-of-contagious-you-turn-my-pages-scientific-evidence-as-to-how-we-become-our-surroundings


Scroll down to Resonance to find this and read the balance of the article. It's very good advice and smacks of Edgar Cayce