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The Burning Times

M

Manea

Senior Registered
Ok I know that there are a lot of kids that remember the more recent mass murder of Hitler, but who remembers their past lives or has kids that remember the Burning times as the Pagans call it...? When the Church went out and did a mass exstermination of witches or pagans (anyone who was not a believer essentially) They killed nearly 40 million women & children (some men). That is like 4 times more than Hitler BTW.

Just wondering because I recently met a man who has deep feelings about those times and is now a Pagan.

Namasté

Manea
 
Hi, I beleive I have seen a glimpse of a pst life when I was a Pagan person. It was in my dream time but I have had other memories in my dream time that I got the proof for. I found myself in a church and the air felt so thick you could cut it with a knife and I walked in through the doors and everyone and everyting stopped and they selled up like a mob and chased me all the way down the street. I couldn't run fast enough. Then I woke up. I am soon going to do some past life regression I would like to return there eventually.
Two Doves
 
The burnings were not only about non-believers. It was more often than not about the Church getting its hands on a woman's home and property if she were unmarried or widowed. It was about taking women's power away from them as midwives and healers, and putting the money they made into the hands of men, who took over the healing arts. Any woman who was independent, such as a widow, was quickly crushed. And not only did the Church get ownership of her property and money, but she also had to pay the fees for her judge, torturor, and executioner, as well as the wood beneath her feet. The mass murder of women and children, and the men who dared to try to protect them was not as much a religious genocide as it was a political one.

Steph

------------------
"Intolerance is the most socially acceptable form of egotism, for it permits us to assume superiority without personal boasting." --Sidney Harris
 
My loved one (soul quide I now have) was burned at stake in England. The point is, in England witches were hanged, not burned, says history. That is why I think she was some kind of heretic, not (just) a witch. I have wondered was she a jew (they were burned with their houses), or what? Or could there have been some descendant of cathars, who had managed to espace to England?

Some say that some Templars went to Scotland after their order was put to end in France. Some think Templars had something to do with Cathars.

Questions, questions...

(I myself am a bit Pagan, but mostly I think myself an Esoterist (though it's too great name for me...)



[This message has been edited by Josefina (edited 09-01-2002).]
 
I've had several regression sessions over the years and during one session, I told of a life in Italy in the mid to late 1200's.

In that lifetime, I lived alone in the mountains and had knowledge of using herbs and plants to heal. To make a long story short, I was eventually falsely accused of killing my children and selling their souls to the devil. I was hunted down, dragged to the town square, tied to a stake, beaten and burned.

The thing is, prior to that session, I had no idea that people who were accused of witchcraft were beaten first. I always believed that the victims were tied to the stake and burned alive.

As I learned while researching the information I gave during my session, beating the victim to death was not a common practice in some parts of Europe, but in Italy, it was done.

Jereldeen
 
Josefina,

It could be possiable that this loved one of yours was burnt at the stake in England for being a Protestant. Many hundereds of Protestants were burnt at the stake during the reign of Mary I (1553-1558) as heretics.
Hope that helps.

Jo
 
Well, somehow I've always been thinking that happened around 1400.

Anyway, me being a monk or most likely a novice it is quite odd that I remember walking and talking in forest at nights with a woman, what ever she was.

But there are countless LITTLE stories history don't know. In fact, history knows very little...
 
Another of our 'charming' inventions over here was the ducking stool, which was used an awful lot in villages.
The accused 'witch' was tied to the stool and held under the water. If she survived it prooved her guilty so she was then killed. The 'innocent' died anyway.
I think for a while here in England just about anybody was likely to be considered a witch. Not good times to live in.
Here's a link to details of the most hideous witch finder England ever had. The film 'Witch Finder General' was based on his story. http://www.edhouse.clara.net/films/hopkins6.html

[This message has been edited by Gemeni (edited 09-01-2002).]
 
Hi Nettl, I've just returned with another link and found your post. My my, weren't they lovely people to come up with such things!!
Actually my brother grew a sixth finger, so in those days he would have been killed. He had it removed, but wishes he'd kept it as he's a musician - a guitarist, so it would have been really useful!!!
Anyway, here's a link to a list of witches killed and how. http://www.hulford.co.uk/trials.html
 
As an all inclusive total for Christian murder in the burning times forty million is probably close the mark.

All told, Christian murder from all sources could exceed a hundred million if enough research were put into the project. The Crusades, the Albigensians and the religious wars alone could come to a hundred million.

Christianity has always been the pimp of the ruling class in political domination. You really cannot separate politics and religion in European history. Everyone seems to want to give Christianity a break. Why? Christianity ,to me, is one long history of unmitigated evil. I had the misfortune to be born a Christian, but I overcame it. It is very difficult to get the Sunday School junk out of your psyche. Loyola put it best. "Give them to us for their first six years and we have them for life."

Six million Jews died under Hitler. What was the total death under Hitler? Who knows, but the grand total had to exceed a hundred million or more. How many collateral deaths were there in the burning times? There had to be millions more.
Children were dispossessed of their parents. Families were made destitute and treated as pariahs. Such people quickly die from disease , exposure and starvation. They burned Mum! That is a stigma that must have caused a lot of deaths. Peasants would see such people as they saw the Jews.

Historically, Christian forgiveness doctrine has been used to remove ruling classes fear of retribution. The Lord of the manor kills your father. The Priest says Our Lord told us to forgive everyone, my son! The Lord has nothing happen to him!

I wonder how often, the blade of an avenging son flashed in the night against a Priest? Probably few? Ignorance and diabolical induced fear worked very well.

I too, had lives in the fourteenth through seventeenth centuries. I escaped the Burnings. I had an Italian,Scottish and English life. Burgher , Soldier, Aristocrat and Virginian.
 
You know , the thing that most scares me is that in the future, perhaps, people might just regard the burning times as a myth, like someone here said earlier. Imagine how many historical events were probably truly there and regarded as myth now...I hope that the future generations will take the holocaust and the burning times to be true. We don't want history repeating itself...I am a pagan, and I know I was one in a past life. This I know because ever since I was a child, I "came up" with herb names and what they were used for, etc.I truly do not remember any lives in which I was burned or hanged as a witch, but I did live in MA, and upon visiting Salem, my heart sunk so fast upon learning that neighbor acused neighbor just to see if they could get more piece of land on their territories...um, but this escapes the subject, hehe...
Not too long ago the group I've been worshiping with had a rememberance day for all the people that were accused of being witches and killed. I guess that's the best thing we can do now. Not repeat the past, but also never, never forget.
 
Sexism and organized religion are mutually connected in the West. Sexism exists because of "Original Sin". But for religious doctrine, sexism would not be a major attitude problem. When you include Marianism in the equation the subject becomes insane. While western christendom was murdering women as witches, they were absolutely adoring the BVM in Catholic countries.

Sexism arises from religions of the desert where tribal vendetta kills off males at hugely disproportionate rates. People died young in those times. It just proves the power of the priest if they control your immortality. If most adults were younger, sexually mature people, sexism even overcame healthy attraction. Another real dose of reality about sexism and doctrine is that men have no friends except women, especially at tribal levels. Even male friends are competitors for the companionship of women. This is true of most species. Yet, doctrine made men forsake even their natural hormonal system for the sake of their soul.

I have always been mystified why human's buy such rathole arguments.
 
Another link to population stats, this one speciffically European: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470754658.fmatter/pdf

The nine million figure always annoys me. From what I've read, no one is even sure where that number came from. More historical accounts read somewhere around 300,000. Perhaps someone said, this was X% of the European population, which someone else took as x% of the present popluation, I don't know. I read that criticisim first, along with some other interesting comments on the documentary "The Burning Times", in a book called "People of the Earth" which is a compilation of profiles of modern pagan people.

I have a copy of that movie though, and although I never cry at movies (unless I'm pregnant lol) the part where they read a letter from a woman asking her husband for something for her to die so she doesn't "expire under torture" does make me cry. (But then again, so did the PBS special on the aid workers in Kabul trying to mend children our country bombed). I also nearly cry at the story of the women in Italy who joined hands and walked into the ocean to their death.

This along with a dream I had, makes me think that in one life or more, weather or not it was associated with the Burning Times, I suspect it was, I killed myself to avoid torture. Maybe I was one of those women... I am afraid of the sea, and the dream did have to do with running towards my greatest fear to avoid something else that was worse.
 
Manea--

I would like to know more about how you use hypnotism in the pagan community. I have a natural talent for hypnotizing people, and it has come in handy in magical use, but I am scared to use it, as I have never been really trained in it.
 
gendenwitha,

First I think we need to establish what it means to hypnotise to you and to me. As a certified hypnotherapist, I learned thet the definition of the state of hypnosis is relaxed, focused, attention. This is what all good storytellers know. You use good oration, details for the imagination to hold on to so that they see another image rather than what their physical eyes see, go further into details and it raises energy, includes physical sensations... what the mind sees thee body will follow.

Is this what you mean?

Namasté

Manea
 
I was one of the accused witches (Bridget Bishop) hung in Salem. I started having flashbacks of the hanging during a shaman journey retreat in February of 2001. The same weekend I had a past life regression where the details of her and her house were shown to me. I have also had many dreams and done meditations on this. In 1992 when a memorial was done for the people who hung in Salem I started healing for abuse from my childhood in this incarnation.
Maureen
 
The Burning Times

I find this subject fascinating. I was hung for being a witch during an epidemic in Europe in the 1600's. The irony is that I was a midwife/healer with great skills and although I couldn't save my husband I was able to save my two small children.

My mother-in-law was my accuser because we had never gotten along and she wanted to take my children away from me. She accused me of deliberately exposing my husband to the plague but not my children. My mother-in-law in that life is my mother in this life and she and I still hate each other and when my only child was born she threatened to take him away from me even though I was 26 and more than capable of taking care of him myself!

In my past life my mother-in-law was successful... I was tortured and hung as a witch and my mother-in-law raised my children.

I guess I haven't forgiven her even now!

Bonnie
 
I am curious if anyone else has memories of this time? It's really not something that one hears a lot about.

I have memories of being a young girl in Kilkenny, Ireland in the 1600's. My name was Sarah Roberts. I have very vivid memories of running through a forest and going into hiding -- with my mother.

A group of men came to the cottage where we were hiding -- among them were my father and brother. They had accused my mother, Susannah, of witchcraft.

They took her from the cottage directly to the river. There was no "trial" ~ but they performed what is called a "floating test" on her. I watched from the riverbank -- as my father held me back, whispering to me "See what happens to women who don't obey, Sarah."

I am lucky -- in that many of my memories have been validated by a dear friend of mine -- who remembers being Susannah. ;)

Ailish
 
I have strong feelings of anger toward the people who persecuted witches during the Burning Times, and in this life, as a Celtic Pagan, I really have to hold back the old anger in order to remain objective and polite toward people who remain fearful and ignorant. I sometimes wonder if my dreams of being chased have anything to do with these deep-seated feelings...
 
Yes, I remember being the Susannah Ailish mentioned. ;)

Those memories are very difficult and I actually believe I have some other PL experience about witchcraft, too. I just don't know where and when yet. It wouldn't be surprising as it was very common in Europe for a long time to accuse and judge women on these grounds. And the real reason for example in Susannah's case was that I had been unfaithful. :rolleyes:

I'd be very interested in other members' memories of witchcraft, too. :thumbsup:

Karoliina
 
How about the persecuters side? I have spent more than one lifetime in the witchcraft/magician buisness. One of which you can read here [thread=10541]What Led to This Life[/thread]

What I didn't know until I read through the burning time thread was that my remorse at how I had treated the people around me caused me to bounce to the other side of the equation. I don't have the words to exspress the why of it at this point. The church will probably never apoligize for it's behavior. Fortunately soul does get the chance to balance it out and help those it wrongs.

Jack
 
Thanks for the link, Jack. :D

jackh said:
How about the persecuters side?
Click to expand...

That is a good question -- and if someone came up to me and said that they had had a lifetime as a persecutor, I think I would find their memories extremely interesting. I'd be curious to know -- what in their previous lifetimes helped to create that situation?

I can tell you, however, that I know one of the men from Kilkenny who performed "the test" -- he remembers as well -- in this life he has managed not to change very much from the person he was then.

Karoliina also knows someone from that life in her present life -- and he seems to have changed quite a bit for the better, has he not? ;)

Karoliina said:
Those memories are very difficult and I actually believe I have some other PL experience about witchcraft, too.
Click to expand...

Me, too. ;) I know that in a life much, much earlier than this one I was also involved in a "witch hunt" per se -- I was the daughter of a Priestess in Wales. I saw many people I loved killed when our settlement was attacked -- and in that life I held onto much anger and resentment. I chose to turn against my mother -- I blamed her for things that she had no control over. I was also attacked and killed by the same men that destroyed our settlement, but it was months later.

I think that it was very common -- more common than the history book say -- to persecute women for crimes. It wasn't just women either -- men and children were also accused, but not as often. It just goes to show you -- what happens when someone tries to control others by using fear.

Ailish :)
 
Education is the key to positive change; Here is a fascinating read -IMO;

Jesus and The Lost Goddess - The secret teachings of the original Christians. ;)

The table of contents says it all; chapter #6 might be of interest to you Aili. :) Click on the left side of the screen next to the cover page. ;)
 
Ailish said:
Karoliina also knows someone from that life in her present life -- and he seems to have changed quite a bit for the better, has he not? ;)
Click to expand...

Yes he has. :D He has done part of that progress as late as in this life - learning to let go of many prejudices (I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm really pleased with myself, but I believe I have helped him in that. : angel ). He wasn't that "bad" in the lives between, but somewhat more ignorant than now.

But he wasn't an active part of the witch hunts - it was just me he wanted to get even with. And we have to remember times were very different then.

Karoliina
 
Interesting topic!


I was burned at the stake, for having been a witch around the 1500's. I was a widow with two young children. I had long red hair with a kerchief, I think it might have been in Ireland. The village people laughed at spat at me as I struggled with the ropes around my wrists holding me to the stake. I screamed to my children as they were held by some of the village men, made to stand and watch me burn. I think my name was something like Nola?. I think others were burned at this time too...


Tsarevna.
 
I was around people who were burned for being healers then called witches. This was another false memory to begin with as I associated so much with their pain of being burned I thought I had also been. After more work, I realised they had just been people I hung out with. I was involved for a wee bit of time with a group of people who I think were from that time==ie some called themselves witches and pagans.


I believe an aunt of mine was one of the judges who called out the sentencing.. She still scared me in this life with her overpowering nature.


It was a place were we would go and have drumming circles around a big bonfire. Fortunately we did a lot of dancing , chanting, singing and drumming . I feel that musical experience { which for me and I am sure some of the others was reminscent of our North American INdian times} gave a good buffer so as to hopefully bring some healings to all of us tramatised by those burning times.
 
It's interesting that this subject has come up. I am a victim of the Burning Times. I was a young French woman who was burned at the stake during the 1500's. Pretty much everytime I see fire it triggers these memories. It gives me chills to think about all the evil that was carried out by people who were supposedly followers of Christ.


I'm able to joke about being burned like that must be why I don't like my toast dark, or my steak well-done, or my chicken extra-crispy. The truth is I still feel very bitter about what happened. Not just for myself, but for the countless other. How many, life myself, where falsely accoused? It sickens me to think how many people over the centuries have been killed in the name of God. Being burned alive is a horrible way to die. If you don't believe me, just try it.


I'm also very sensative to people who think if others don't believe as they believe, they're going to Hell. I've already been condemned to Hell once, but guess what? I'm still here. :tongue:
 
Truthseeker said:
How many, life myself, where falsely accoused? I sickens me to think how many people over the centuries have been killed in the name of God. Being burned alive is a horrible way to die. If you don't believe me, just try it.
Click to expand...
In my case I was not wrongly accused, I feel I was 100% guilty. I was practicing witchcraft with a few other women of my village.
 
Truthseeker said:
Being burned alive is a horrible way to die. If you don't believe me, just try it.
Click to expand...
No thanks!! I'll take your word for it ;)


It's good that those days are long gone now as all of us here would probably be burned at the stake for believing that we live more than once. It's nice to know that we've at least grown a bit more civilised over the centuries in that department : angel
 
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